Leaves are trying to tell me something, ganja interpreter needed...

[MediScrogs]

I have a Muay Thai super-auto at about 44 days.

She's growing under leds in a soiless peat and coir based mix with perlite and a few organic amendments. No guanos.

Has been a super lush, healthy girl all the way through, but her leaves starting developing some signs of distress about 3-4 days ago. I feed her every day with Sea Grow 4-26-26 and Botanicare Cal-Mag+. She's had a few additions of 1 tsp molasses a couple times, and also took one dose of Silica Blast a couple days back. She's being scrogged in a 2' x 7' tent with a 4' ceiling. Needs watering every 24 hours. In a 3 gal. fabric pot.

Up to now, she has really loved the nutes and every single leaf on the plant has looked healthy, it's been great.

When I saw the spots, I figured she was hungry for more phosphorus and maybe potassium as well, so I upped the dose on the following watering, and noticed the runoff was acidic at ph 5.7 compared to input at 6.2

This morning I ran through a gallon of water at about ph 7.0, followed by a half gallon of 1/2 usual strength nutes with Cal Mag as always.

Here's some pics of the leaves, the damage is appearing on the newer growth, not the top leaves but the third or fourth set from the tips. I'd appreciate any advice as to what she's trying to tell me and how to manage the situation going forward. Does she need a good flush of several gallons high ph water before resuming feeding?

This pic is on some leaves that are a bit older:

It's possible some nutrient solution dribbled on and burnt a leaf, but I hope you have an idea of the general picture.

Let me know if you need more info or pictures.

Thank you, Moderators, for running such a great website here; I am deeply grateful for your help today.

Kind regards,

 

[MediScrogs]

I guess I'm going for "when in doubt, flush 'em out". I assume there is some salt build up.

 

[Waira]

:smoking: hey Medi'! From what I can tell, she got cooked by the nute's... too much, too soon,.. were you diluting at all? as a sativa dom' strain (I think at least, being Thai), they tend to be nute sensitive sometimes, and as with any auto, ditto! Always, it best to ease up on concentrations, even frequency, and test the tolerance waters carefully,... I can see why you mistook the symptoms as a defc. though,... but usually, the tip burning is the sure sign of overfert'ing,... the pH isn't that far off, though it may have added to the tolerance issue...I think the coco gurus say low 6's,..ditto for peat based simple "soilless" media like Promix,... actual soil likes mid 6's,... so, ease off the nutes, watch for progression of symptoms over the next day or so, but keep up with the Ca-Mg... if things worsen, you'll have to flush and purge the excess out, but you might skate by without doing this,...we'll see! Cheers Medi', and you're quite welcome!

 

[MediScrogs]

:smoking: hey Medi'! From what I can tell, she got cooked by the nute's... too much, too soon,.. were you diluting at all? as a sativa dom' strain (I think at least, being Thai), they tend to be nute sensitive sometimes, and as with any auto, ditto! Always, it best to ease up on concentrations, even frequency, and test the tolerance waters carefully,... I can see why you mistook the symptoms as a defc. though,... but usually, the tip burning is the sure sign of overfert'ing,... the pH isn't that far off, though it may have added to the tolerance issue...I think the coco gurus say low 6's,..ditto for peat based simple "soilless" media like Promix,... actual soil likes mid 6's,... so, ease off the nutes, watch for progression of symptoms over the next day or so, but keep up with the Ca-Mg... if things worsen, you'll have to flush and purge the excess out, but you might skate by without doing this,...we'll see! Cheers Medi', and you're quite welcome!

Thanks, Waira, that makes a lot of sense to me. I've never tried to feed a plant with every watering before, and it's getting watered every day, is an auto, a sativa, is under leds. It's been a great learning experience all around, and I just appreciate the world of autos and thank you for giving your input here.

I might go ahead and flush her a bit more and finish with dilute nutes--she's in a fast draining pot (too much perlite) and I don't want her to stretch much further so I wouldn't mind if she just vamps for a bit. Cramped for space in here

Hope it's going well for you bro, thanks!

 

[Kakarot]

I am a noob but you are using the exact same nutes as me and same brand cal-mag as me so I will try to offer what my experience has been thus far with my plants and seagrow. I have 2 russian dragon autos under a 240w blackstar LED, I started out with the 16-16-16 seagrow 1/4tsp to a gallon of 6.8ph water with 1/2 tsp of the cal-mag. I fed them this everyday for about 12 days and gave them probably 12oz of the solution each for me even at that low a dose they started getting nute burn so I stopped and let the pots completely dry out for about 3 days then I watered again with the same soloution and gave each plant 12.oz except this time I waited 2 full days before feeding again. When I did I bumped it up to 1/2tsp of the 16-16-16 and still 1/2 of the cal-mag plus with each watering I have moved the ounces they each get up gradually from 12 to 14 to 18 and now they are getting 20o.z each. They are now doing well and no new burn has developed (yet) and hopefully it will not. Lefty is about 34 days old and Whitey is 31 and now I am giving them 1/2tsp of the 4-26-26 seagrow, 1/2tsp of the botanicare cal-mag plus,and 1/2tsp of Great White to a gallon of 6.6Ph spring water at the moment they each get 20 oz each, I try to wait 2 full days in-between feedings but if they go dry I will go ahead and do it on the second day.. So far so good and no new nute burn. I hope this helps you somehow. Autos I am guessing are really sensitive to nutes just have to go light to the end is what I have been told. Cheers man I hope you get her feeling bettter.

:drool:
:dragon6:

 

[81camaro]

Hey Medi! I wanna see the Thai kickass! I like the flush strategy, clear the pot of nutes and buildup. At 44 days, it's time. The high P-K levels will lock out N. Agree with above, lighten up on the nutes, get back in with some root builders, sensizyme, B-52, tarantula, piranha, etc. whatever you have on hand. With the tent filling up again, how's the humidity levels. Plants will begin to suffocate at 80% and I've lost a round under similar conditions. I know you have a short ceiling and light distance to canopy is key to proper spectrum blending. Good luck with working it out, let us know how it's going.

 

[MediScrogs]

Hey Medi! I wanna see the Thai kickass! I like the flush strategy, clear the pot of nutes and buildup. At 44 days, it's time. The high P-K levels will lock out N. Agree with above, lighten up on the nutes, get back in with some root builders, sensizyme, B-52, tarantula, piranha, etc. whatever you have on hand. With the tent filling up again, how's the humidity levels. Plants will begin to suffocate at 80% and I've lost a round under similar conditions. I know you have a short ceiling and light distance to canopy is key to proper spectrum blending. Good luck with working it out, let us know how it's going.

Thanks, bud. The humidity really hasn't been an issue at all. Around 40%, sometimes 45%, I haven't seen it go any higher than that. Temps are ranging between 80* F with the tent on during the night, and around 86* during the day. As high as 90* a few times during some hot weather but it's been mild lately so the conditions are good.

I don't have any enzymes or other goodies, I have been tempted to spend money on them but never seemed that important, perhaps I still should get a small bottle since the Thai and the Copa have quite a ways to go still. I did get a 1 oz bottle of Great White last weekend for like $11 on ebay. I'll flush her a bit and add in some of that again. She's overall looking healthy and still fits in the space, but she's taking up more than half the tent.

Hope yours are doing well too, bro. Take it easy,

 

[81camaro]

Hey Medi. Good news on humidity, that's usually external and hard to fix without some climate control. It pushed me out of my old box in the crawlspace and into the spare bedroom. It's ok they're the best company i've had in awhile, lol. The root zone argument is "growing" on me and my recent switch to AN products is a step towards that thinking. Up until now its been Fox farms all the way and I felt the chemical bloom boosters were doing more harm than good and I blame them partially, as I climb the learning curve. Not to slam em though, i've had some big successes in the past and recently. Since the switch i have spent alot more money on nutes than id like but it just works and everythings been green and healthy. I was lucky to pick up the root tribe pack at my Hydro store for half off where i had just planned on getting the voodoo juice. Very happy with the early veg growth and flowering is off to a great start. I have a feeling yields will double with the AN and scrog. I do try to keep my temps in the 70s though i think leaf temps are prob closer to 80. 90s seem a little danger zone to me, it would make me nervous. Hopefully she's just a bit overnuted and a flush with a few days water after will bring her back into the fold. Good luck man. Heading up to the mountains to drop off some of my Widow and take a look at the Copa. Pics on sunday.

 

[MediScrogs]

Hey Medi. Good news on humidity, that's usually external and hard to fix without some climate control. It pushed me out of my old box in the crawlspace and into the spare bedroom. It's ok they're the best company i've had in awhile, lol. The root zone argument is "growing" on me and my recent switch to AN products is a step towards that thinking. Up until now its been Fox farms all the way and I felt the chemical bloom boosters were doing more harm than good and I blame them partially, as I climb the learning curve. Not to slam em though, i've had some big successes in the past and recently. Since the switch i have spent alot more money on nutes than id like but it just works and everythings been green and healthy. I was lucky to pick up the root tribe pack at my Hydro store for half off where i had just planned on getting the voodoo juice. Very happy with the early veg growth and flowering is off to a great start. I have a feeling yields will double with the AN and scrog. I do try to keep my temps in the 70s though i think leaf temps are prob closer to 80. 90s seem a little danger zone to me, it would make me nervous. Hopefully she's just a bit overnuted and a flush with a few days water after will bring her back into the fold. Good luck man. Heading up to the mountains to drop off some of my Widow and take a look at the Copa. Pics on sunday.

Cool, bro. Would like to see new pics of your Copa.

I flushed through a couple gallons of water to cleanse a bit then gave her some cal-mag and a weak amount of nutes. I'm sure it's not too bad so I'm not really worried. 95% of the leaves look fine anyway.

One curious thing about it, I was looking at her today assessing the leaves and I noticed that the problem has only manifested on the side of the plant that has been under the "old" Mars 60 x 5w. The side under the Blackstar shows no damage whatsoever, and is budding better than the other side. More light intensity under the Blackstar as it's getting sidelit from the other two lights as well.

Under the 60x5w is where the problem is, and the branches in front of the circulation fan in that corner are definitely the worst, so there's a stress factor involved, and maybe a factor related to the lack of light intensity or lack of proper spectrum. I know you get what you pay for, and I didn't have an extra hundred bucks at the time for a Reflector series light or another Blackstar. I'm thinking I like the old Mars 100x3 more than that 60x5. Oh well, it'll make a good sidelight or seedstarter next time.

 

[MediScrogs]

I'm rserving judgment on the Sea Grow nutes until sometime later, as I think the few problems I have had with them are user err and not the fault of the nutes.

The AN nutes are definitely good, everybody knows that. I plan on experimenting with other nutes and types of setups down the road until I find what I like. Might go for a drip emitter or wick system because I feel I'm spending more time watering than I had expected, and I want a setup that takes less work. I don't really want to go fully hydro, though, since for every success with that there are plenty more peeps running into trouble. I like a soilless mix as being a bit more forgiving.