Mimic Jacks 321

[MMMi]

Ok, I've been struggling, struggling to get things "dialed in". It doesn't help that I'm new and until recently changing methods/mediums. I've settled on RDWC for now (as long as I dont need a chiller -- drawing the line there). My env is good. I get phases of smooth sailing, but not start to finish yet.

There is a plethora of information out there about using Jacks in DWC. Not so much with megacrop (yet). On more than one occasion I've had Jacks in a shopping cart and almost pulled the trigger. Honestly, if I could have got the 4# tubs on amazon, I'd probably have it. Just would like to get a solid, proven, tested baseline and tweak from there because right now it feels like playing darts while blindfolded.... Plus I like the fact the megacrop already has some of the items I'd probably have to add back in (like Si, Aminos, etc)

So as a thought experiment, I whipped up a spreadsheet and started playing around with replicating Jacks 321 formula with megacrop using what I had on hand. 321 has way more calcium and mag. Here are some approximations (grams/ml per gallon):

CMP = Greenleaf Calmag Pro	MC = Megacrop	SC = Greenleaf Sweet Candy	MKP = MKP
ES = Epsom Salts	CM = Botanicare CalMag

Description	Total PPM	N	P	K	Ca	Mg	S	Ratio
Jacks 3.2/2.4/1.2	685	140	44	182	117	85	113	3.2 - 1 - 4.1
CMP 1.5/MC 4/SC 0.5/ES 1.5 / MKP 0.5	690	147	58	204	103	85	89	2.5 - 1 - 3.5
CMP 1.25 / MC 4.25 / EP 2 / MKP 0.3	657	144	47	181	99	90	90	3 - 1 - 3.8
CM 5 / MC 5 / EP 1.5 / MKP 0.25	688	146	50	205	117	86	77	3 - 1 - 4.1

Some observations: It's harder to hit the targets with GLN CMP because of Nitrogen. I have Bud Candy, but it bumps K out of range trying to hit target P's.



I'm probably going to try the bottom one for a while going forward.

[edit: this is using MC 2.0 -- I have a batch of 2.1 but haven't messed with it yet]

 

[Greenleaf Nutrients]

You seem to be way over complicating feeding! Also you probably shouldn't use SC in rDWC, carbohydrate product's aren't really that great for RDWC systems.

For the basic feeding, I would recommend to use :
1) MC only for vegging phase
2) MC + MKP for bloom phase.

Only if you have Magnesium issues, should you also add EP during either of these phases, and only if your MC levels are already correct.

 

[MMMi]

Veg went great -- just used MC+Calmag. Teetered on n-tox, but went smooth. Flower is when things started to go south.

I'm using tea with microbes/fungi as an alternative to sterile ATM, so there are probably a little sugars circulating around already. And, for the few journals I have read -- people still use SC in hydro. Currently I am not. But even in your prior posts about SC, you didn't really dissuade people from using it in hydro.

I'm mid/late flower. Tried using just megacrop+epsom to around 1.2EC (which is where the system is stable, ph slowly drifting up, water down, ec is slowly rising ~ 0.06/day). This seemed to help the mag def (interveinal chlorosis improved) but now it looks like calcium def splotches.

I see quite a few posts about calcium and magnesium under LEDs. I also see a lot of successful grows using Jacks. So, being a data kinda guy -- I wanted to compare. 2.1 might help in that regard -- but I have a sack of 2.0 still.

Using RO, so there is that too.

Using MC + MKP only @ MC 4.0 / MKP 1.0 results in half the calcium and 1/3 the magnesium of 321.

I'd chuck a mix of well water in there if it didn't take a whole bottle to wrangle the ph in range.

 

[Greenleaf Nutrients]

Veg went great -- just used MC+Calmag. Teetered on n-tox, but went smooth. Flower is when things started to go south.

I'm using tea with microbes/fungi as an alternative to sterile ATM, so there are probably a little sugars circulating around already. And, for the few journals I have read -- people still use SC in hydro. Currently I am not. But even in your prior posts about SC, you didn't really dissuade people from using it in hydro.

I'm mid/late flower. Tried using just megacrop+epsom to around 1.2EC (which is where the system is stable, ph slowly drifting up, water down, ec is slowly rising ~ 0.06/day). This seemed to help the mag def (interveinal chlorosis improved) but now it looks like calcium def splotches.

I see quite a few posts about calcium and magnesium under LEDs. I also see a lot of successful grows using Jacks. So, being a data kinda guy -- I wanted to compare. 2.1 might help in that regard -- but I have a sack of 2.0 still.

Using RO, so there is that too.

Using MC + MKP only @ MC 4.0 / MKP 1.0 results in half the calcium and 1/3 the magnesium of 321.

I'd chuck a mix of well water in there if it didn't take a whole bottle to wrangle the ph in range.

Do you have any pictures of your problems? That's probably the best way to help you. The main problem most people have is over-complicating things. Like you said you are using CalMag in vegging phase, why are you doing that? Did you notice a deficiency?

Regarding Sweet Candy, it is a carbohydrate/sugars product, so if someone is in RDWC and wants to add a carb product then they can. There are some other factors and consequences they would need to account for if they do, in other words you should be an advanced grower and know what you are doing first.