Grow Mediums Am I insane or a lot of people are using the WRONG pH !!!

[DWCocha]

I try to stay as close to 5.8 as poss & never go over 6.0

 

[Groff]

Yes yes, brain-fart is a word that keeps popping in my mind. LOL.... just realized the pun...

Anyway, I would gladly swing the pH, but my pH wont swing! It is rock solid, always has been - the furthest I went without a rez change was 4 weeks and THEN the EC started dropping and pH went down IIRC.

One of the reasons I wouldn't use AN pH perfect is that in case the plant is trying to communicate, the info transmission is lost. This should be really evident in DWC, and a heck of a lot less in RDWC. But whatever works, keep at it.

 

[komach]

Anyway, I would gladly swing the pH, but my pH wont swing! It is rock solid, always has been - the furthest I went without a rez change was 4 weeks and THEN the EC started dropping and pH went down IIRC.

Ohhh I wish I could say the same..... Ph is my enemy even with ph perfect my ph rise high without daily(2 times a day) adjustments.
:Sharing One:

 

[Muddy]

Not talking Ca specific, but the idea of doing hydro (DWC mainly) with a low pH and ending high. I completely contradicts the plants needs at each stage. Current Culture folk say so themselves and it makes peeeerfect sense, check it out;

And bob, no way dude!! P and K completely lock out starting 6.0 !! So you cant finish high for increased P and K, that is precisely the point here. And N is available all the way through the pH range down to 5.5, so you can't lock it out with pH, only switching to bloom nutes will cut down N availability. Bazinga!

I think many people have got it switched around. Look at the chart above, the first is soil, the second is hydro availability.

Yeah, I ended 6.4 in coco but thankfully the CEC properties buffered in my favor!!

I'm mid way my first RDWC... so happy I found this!

I just start my second grow with a Current Culture RDWC system and am using the same chart with H&G nutrients. I set the pH to 6.2 and within a week of putting the plants in the system I started having nutrient lockout on 5 of 7 plants, cal, mag, P and K. Dropped the pH to 6.0 and no more lockout. While it looks to be somewhat strain/pheno dependent, 6.2 does seem to be too high in veg. Going forward I'll not go any higher than 6, dropping to 5.8 when they start to flower.

Okay, I could totally be wrong here as I'm as far from hydro as it gets...so here goes...

From what I understand about hydro the PH is not static. As the plant uses nutrients the ph fluctuates, and the fluctuation is essential yes? Thanks to the fluctuation between EACH watering, not over the life of the plant, it allows different nutes to become available to the plant?

So the buffet is provided through fluctuation, dips and spikes during the week?

Oh boy, I may have just stepped in it....

This seems to be the current thinking among hydro growers and it appears to have some merit. Fluctuations through the whole range allowing all the nutrient to be uptaken at their optimum. pH will rise and ppm will drop as the plants feed. I'm using a top off res which is set to a slightly lower pH as the system but slightly higher ppm. As the nutrients are used they are being replenished at a rate that keeps the pH and ppm more constant, so I don't see a lot of swing in my readings.

 

[Groff]

I do exactly the same, except in the top-off rez (2x 100L) I only drop in cal mag silicon and A&B and set pH. Everything else I directly drop in the live system (75 & 100L)

komach, man that's got to suck. Are you using tap or RO? I use 24/h bubbled tap base water EC 0.2 but add another 0.2 or cal mag and silicon. first cal mag and let mix really well, then silicon, another 15-30mins mixing with a 500L/h powerhead. This creates an "added layer" of buffering power. Then mix in the rest a little easier, let it quickly dissolve, I add everything that goes UP together and let it settle, then the nutes that go down and let settle. Final drops of pH (-) and bingo.

 

[komach]

komach, man that's got to suck. Are you using tap or RO? I use 24/h bubbled tap base water EC 0.2 but add another 0.2 or cal mag and silicon. first cal mag and let mix really well, then silicon, another 15-30mins mixing with a 500L/h powerhead. This creates an "added layer" of buffering power. Then mix in the rest a little easier, let it quickly dissolve, I add everything that goes UP together and let it settle, then the nutes that go down and let settle. Final drops of pH (-) and bingo.

Hey Groff yes it sucks a lot indeed. I use RO as my tap water is 0.7 EC (not motivating eh? ). I do as you, I add cal/mag to compensate the emptiness of RO and than add silicon (everything get mixed with bubbles in spare bucket). Hovewer I never let it sattle, it is constantly mixing with bubbles. My ph epos is started 2 years ago when I first started. I already changed
2 *

1*

1*

Now I have this one and it just rescue me the routine of ph testing

before it was horrible :twist:. And I already tried all possible techniques. I still have last thought about it and i am currently testing it (It can be to much air, 45l per bucket of 25l)

 

[Epic Genetics]

I just start my second grow with a Current Culture RDWC system and am using the same chart with H&G nutrients. I set the pH to 6.2 and within a week of putting the plants in the system I started having nutrient lockout on 5 of 7 plants, cal, mag, P and K. Dropped the pH to 6.0 and no more lockout. While it looks to be somewhat strain/pheno dependent, 6.2 does seem to be too high in veg. Going forward I'll not go any higher than 6, dropping to 5.8 when they start to flower.



This seems to be the current thinking among hydro growers and it appears to have some merit. Fluctuations through the whole range allowing all the nutrient to be uptaken at their optimum. pH will rise and ppm will drop as the plants feed. I'm using a top off res which is set to a slightly lower pH as the system but slightly higher ppm. As the nutrients are used they are being replenished at a rate that keeps the pH and ppm more constant, so I don't see a lot of swing in my readings.

so you are saying you start at 6.0 ?

this goes against everything ive ever known or been told about hydro ph

i am always trying for 5.5-5.8 , never higher never lower , not intentionally anyway , and at the end or nearing the end ive always gone out of my way to keep it @ 5.8 , monitoring it daily , sometimes twice a day , ive always seen the old ph chart thats been posted for years and it seems to coincide , but this newer chart being posted seems different somehow , it makes me wonder if it is legit or just thrown together by some grower no different then any of us

peace

edit , cant use the word never , as i used to start 5.8 and end 6.2

 

[Epic Genetics]

Yes yes, brain-fart is a word that keeps popping in my mind. LOL.... just realized the pun...

Anyway, I would gladly swing the pH, but my pH wont swing! It is rock solid, always has been - the furthest I went without a rez change was 4 weeks and THEN the EC started dropping and pH went down IIRC.

One of the reasons I wouldn't use AN pH perfect is that in case the plant is trying to communicate, the info transmission is lost. This should be really evident in DWC, and a heck of a lot less in RDWC. But whatever works, keep at it.

that to me sounds like a ph lockout issue , due to plants consuming the nutes the ph should change , or at least with nutes i use that adjust the ph of my water when added , makes sense doesnt it , add nutes and ph drops , there for shouldnt the ph rise once those nutes are removed ?

peace

 

[Groff]

That would be the case in a single 20L DWC bucket with about 10L worth of water. I have 4 plants with 100L of water recirculating 7-10x per hour. Its an "entirely" different concept. Dial them in a comfort sweet spot, and they'll be set for weeks, with rock solid pH and steady EC.

pH and EC staying stable is a sign of a healthy growing recirculating system. pH drop can mean a breakout, pH up EC down that they are hungry, pH up EC up that they just drinking not eating (IIRC)... But I dont go by numbers, I prefer to look at them proper and judge the values.

For instance, I've been running bennies, so a sudden pH rise a few days later means they're actively digesting something that is not supposed to be there. It depends.

CC might suggest starting that high because they have their own label of nutrients, so could be just that. But I've been checking other pH charts and all seem to indicate the same as the one I posted above.

Anyway what I am trying to get at is exactly that, for some reason there are dozens of DWC folk out there going the wrong way with their pH regime. I have a lot of time before next seed cracking to read up on it, but all of a sudden a lot of doubts in my head just cleared

 

[Epic Genetics]

That would be the case in a single 20L DWC bucket with about 10L worth of water. I have 4 plants with 100L of water recirculating 7-10x per hour. Its an "entirely" different concept. Dial them in a comfort sweet spot, and they'll be set for weeks, with rock solid pH and steady EC.

pH and EC staying stable is a sign of a healthy growing recirculating system. pH drop can mean a breakout, pH up EC down that they are hungry, pH up EC up that they just drinking not eating (IIRC)... But I dont go by numbers, I prefer to look at them proper and judge the values.

For instance, I've been running bennies, so a sudden pH rise a few days later means they're actively digesting something that is not supposed to be there. It depends.

CC might suggest starting that high because they have their own label of nutrients, but I've been checking other pH charts and all seem to indicate the same as the one I posted above. Anyway what I am trying to get at is exactly that, for some reason there are dozens of DWC folk out there going the wrong way with their pH regime!

thanx for that explanation , ive got a lot to learn about hydro and that post was easy to follow/understand

peace