DIY Citizen falsified product data for LED parts

[KonopCh]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...alsified-product-data-led-parts/#.WoUyioMbO73

The big issue is the LM80 report. They basically stated that V3 thru V6 used fabricated data. They just made up most of it. So the L90/L70 numbers are fantasy. Sure initial performance looks good but there's no data to back up long-term performance. This is especially important for Energy STAR and DLC qualified products. All those fixtures will need to requalified. DLC for horticulture is right around the corner.

This is especially troublesome because Citizen is a major brand in the industry. It would be interesting to see what methods the regulratory bodies will take knowing this news.

 

[Boradan]

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...alsified-product-data-led-parts/#.WoUyioMbO73

The big issue is the LM80 report. They basically stated that V3 thru V6 used fabricated data. They just made up most of it. So the L90/L70 numbers are fantasy. Sure initial performance looks good but there's no data to back up long-term performance. This is especially important for Energy STAR and DLC qualified products. All those fixtures will need to requalified. DLC for horticulture is right around the corner.

This is especially troublesome because Citizen is a major brand in the industry. It would be interesting to see what methods the regulratory bodies will take knowing this news.

Well... shit.

We can see from these forums and @BigSm0 's work that the COBs are still pretty damned good. Just need to wait and see how much they exaggerated

Citizen's Official response
http://ce.citizen.co.jp/up_img/news/pMgZjvc7Mmqs/20171110toe.pdf

 

[BigSm0]

I am definitely going to look deeper into this. What I can add to this is I don’t just buy a cob and pray it works. After 1.5 years of running cree I slowly worked my way into citizen. Not as impressed with the spec sheet I still gave them a fair chance. Judging by what I am doing now you can probably see that the results of grows and testing was successful.

The version 5’s I originally used did amazingly well compared to other brands. Growth, plant quality. No issues at all with performance. The release of the version 6 was everything they said it would be. I am actually getting a little more wattage, slightly lower junction temps and heatsink temps with the higher wattage which absolutely proves what I was happy with before is now actually better. If it works and works well there is no need to spread fud. Since the release of this doc my plants won’t miracously die off lol.

This is where I’m at with citizen and something I shouldn’t share but to prove my faith. I just checked my orders on cobs from the distributor I use. MOST cobs are used in and sold in AutoCobs. There hasn’t been a single issue with any of them. While shipping to 16 different countries too. A total of 1300 cobs purchased, not all sold or used yet but not a single issue at all. I honestly would expect at least a some of them or even the drivers to arrive faulty and nothing.

What ever the results of the doc are or whatever they reveal has absolutely no impact on my judgement or future business I plan to send to citizen. At the end of the day there isn’t a light source that grows plants as well that I have tried and in the past 6 months I have tried a lot.

 

[KonopCh]

It's not about if they work or not. They're great COBs. I have them too besides Cree and Samsung.
It's not about if they can grow a plant or not. Every light/bulb can grow a plant.

There are a bunch of spreadsheets, sphere tests and data of various COBs from Cree, Bridgelux, Samsung, Nichia to Citizen. Some are better, some are more efficient, some are smaller, some run cooler. You can choose what suits you. But you cannot say one is better than other because your grow is nice. That's bro science. Go side by side IN THE SAME ENVIROMENT with THE SAME CONDITIONS if you want prove anything (better efficiency, highest wattage, lower price, anything). Or check RIU, there is a lot of data if you're into it!

 

[BigSm0]

What do you think I’m doing? I will say it till I’m red in the face that citizen cobs work better for growing over any other light source I have tried. I just finished a cree 3590-1812 grow. Same room, same res. I have recently run Samsung, and blurple too. I don’t own a sphere or a photospectrometer but I do grow and do a lot of testing. This has been going on for years and I still say the same thing, Spec sheets don’t grow plants. I’m not exactly sure what it is about the citizen but I wouldn’t change it if I could. There are dozens that say the same exact thing.

For a perfect example, I spoke to a guy last night who ran a vero and citizen grow and he is taking out the vero for more citizens. Does it make sense why one is better than the other? At the end of the day scratching your head looking at a spec sheet and walking into a room with opposite results is more than enough for me.

 

[Dabber]

What do you think I’m doing? I will say it till I’m red in the face that citizen cobs work better for growing over any other light source I have tried. I just finished a cree 3590-1812 grow. Same room, same res. I have recently run Samsung, and blurple too. I don’t own a sphere or a photospectrometer but I do grow and do a lot of testing. This has been going on for years and I still say the same thing, Spec sheets don’t grow plants. I’m not exactly sure what it is about the citizen but I wouldn’t change it if I could. There are dozens that say the same exact thing.

For a perfect example, I spoke to a guy last night who ran a vero and citizen grow and he is taking out the vero for more citizens. Does it make sense why one is better than the other? At the end of the day scratching your head looking at a spec sheet and walking into a room with opposite results is more than enough for me.

Bro I got you, if seeing is believing than they will see the results in due time. I'm a total noob but not stupid my no means. All I can add is I SAW LIGHT

 

[BigSm0]

Haven’t had a minute to read the whole statement or reply but I did message the distributor.