Cupped and clawed seedling

[Beerhunter CDN]

Hi Everyone

I am a first time grower and I’m unsure what I’m seeing on this seedling. I would appreciate any advice as I haven’t really seen another like this in the forums. My grow info is below:


Your Equipment:

A) 2 - Meizhi 600W Blurples (275W Actual each). Two plants under each light. Veg lights only at 24/7.

B)Lights 27” above seedling height

E)6” exhaust fan and passive intake controlled by a digital thermostat.

F) Currently two circulation fans


Your nutrients and water:

H) Tap Water : left out for 24 hours before using. PH 7.1

I) AN Sensigrow A and B 2ml/L each, AN Voodoo juice 1 ml/L, AN Calmag plus 1 ml/L ( these are all half strength nutes)

J) Tap water at 210ppm unadjusted

K) Nutrient solution is 580ppm including tap water.

L) Temperature of nute solution is tent temp at approx 22C ( I leave a jug of nutes in the tent to stay warm).

N) PH rises to approx 6.5 so I adjust to 6-6.2 before feeding.


Your growroom:

Q) 4x4 ft tent

R) Lights are on 24/7. Temps are consistent at 22-23C and 55-65% RH day and night. I run an oil filled heater for heat and the exhaust fan cycles periodically to bring temps down to set point and change the air.

S) No signs of insects


Your strain:

Mephisto Genetics 4 Assed Monkey at 12 days from sprout grown in Canna Coco in 3 Gallon fabric pots with a layer of hydro clay balls in the bottom.


This is the only seedling of 4 in the tent that is doing this. All are Mephisto. I am not feeding on a schedule but feeding when I think they need it about once every couple of days. I am not watering to runoff yet, just watering around the perimeter of the foliage. I check pH of nutes with a calibrated pen every time. I transplanted them from solo cups on day 8 into their pots and they recovered without a hitch.


I am leaning to either Nitrogen toxicity since a couple leaves are turning down at the tips but one is cupping upwards, possibly underwatering, or it’s just weird. I’d like to know if I’m missing something or if I’m just being too cautious as a first time grower. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you all.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Beerhunter CDN I see a couple of things that may be effecting the plant. The first is your starting water PPMs is high for AN they recommend RO or distilled water with their products. The other is a personal choice; I like to run 18/6. I just think plants need a night time. I don't really see anything wrong with your plant but it might just be beginning.

AN makes a product for growing in COCO. I see your adding Calmag but they may make other changes to the formula besides that?

 

[Beerhunter CDN]

@Beerhunter CDN I see a couple of things that may be effecting the plant. The first is your starting water PPMs is high for AN they recommend RO or distilled water with their products. The other is a personal choice; I like to run 18/6. I just think plants need a night time. I don't really see anything wrong with your plant but it might just be beginning.

AN makes a product for growing in COCO. I see your adding Calmag but they may make other changes to the formula besides that?

Thank you! I’ll get distilled or RO water from here on out. I was already going to put them on a light schedule but I didn’t know at what point to do that, 18/6 it is.

 

[Beerhunter CDN]

I checked on the plants this morning and fed them at 1/2 strength nutes using distilled water. I noticed that Bubbly Livers is starting to claw and has a couple of very small brown spots on one leaf. 4AM now has one leaf with some burn on the tip and a slight yellowing around the edges. More leaves are curling as well. I noticed also that all stems are quite purple in colour, I’m not sure if that is normal.

In further study, I’m wondering if it isn’t the start of light burn. I measured my lights and they were actually at 26” from the tops of the seedlings. I have raised them to 30” and put the timer on at 18/6. I can’t see where it is a deficiency due to the nutes I’m feeding and pH is checked every time before feeding (along with calibrating my meter). @Waira @slowandeasy

4AM

Bubbly Livers

 

[Waira]

T and RH% are OK,... lights may have been too close for seedlings, but that's good now,... Of more concern is the tap water ppm, that's fairly hard water, enough to overwhelm the AN's "self buffering" capacity, which works in solution only, all bets are off once in pot,... Look into getting a pH probe for actual in pot testing, like the Accurate 8, or a more fancy/$ unit like Blue Labs that works basically the same as a pH meter (electrode bulb type) plus all the care that comes with it, same as any other pH meter (liquids only)... this is just for initial part of the grow, pretty soon you'll be doing the 15-25% run-off each time you feed, testing that r-o for pH and ppm's,.. this is how you grow with coco in pots like this, it cannot be treated like true soil or you'll have problems soon enough.... it has to stay evenly moist too, no drying out ever, coco hates that shit and it'll show in the plants... because of this, many folks use RO/Di water, or water that very low in hardness,... those self fill units at stores usually have nice water at much less $$, so grab a 3-5gal jug and use that... this will help with pH buffering as well with the AN nutes,.. use a Ca-Mg supplement for sure, or switch to coco specific nutes,...
Symptoms aren't distinct enough to call,.. might be a few things, so lets see what the next set does,.. some uneven growth isn't uncommon in any case, but this isn't N-tox' or anything like that,....

 

[Beerhunter CDN]

T and RH% are OK,... lights may have been too close for seedlings, but that's good now,... Of more concern is the tap water ppm, that's fairly hard water, enough to overwhelm the AN's "self buffering" capacity, which works in solution only, all bets are off once in pot,... Look into getting a pH probe for actual in pot testing, like the Accurate 8, or a more fancy/$ unit like Blue Labs that works basically the same as a pH meter (electrode bulb type) plus all the care that comes with it, same as any other pH meter (liquids only)... this is just for initial part of the grow, pretty soon you'll be doing the 15-25% run-off each time you feed, testing that r-o for pH and ppm's,.. this is how you grow with coco in pots like this, it cannot be treated like true soil or you'll have problems soon enough.... it has to stay evenly moist too, no drying out ever, coco hates that shit and it'll show in the plants... because of this, many folks use RO/Di water, or water that very low in hardness,... those self fill units at stores usually have nice water at much less $$, so grab a 3-5gal jug and use that... this will help with pH buffering as well with the AN nutes,.. use a Ca-Mg supplement for sure, or switch to coco specific nutes,...
Symptoms aren't distinct enough to call,.. might be a few things, so lets see what the next set does,.. some uneven growth isn't uncommon in any case, but this isn't N-tox' or anything like that,....

Thank you very much @Waira
I appreciate your efforts here. I’ll get on the RO wagon and see what I can do about a decent soil probe.

One question I do have is in regards to watering in coco at this stage of growth for a seedling. I’m concerned about overwatering but I understand I need to keep coco moist. Do I feed enough to moisten the coco but without runoff?

 

[EvilScotsman]

Thank you very much @Waira
I appreciate your efforts here. I’ll get on the RO wagon and see what I can do about a decent soil probe.

One question I do have is in regards to watering in coco at this stage of growth for a seedling. I’m concerned about overwatering but I understand I need to keep coco moist. Do I feed enough to moisten the coco but without runoff?

Overwatering is a myth mate. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to grow in nothing but water (dwc) the problems that come from “over watering” actually arise from lack of drainage and o2 to the roots. Add 30% perilite to the coco (next time, don’t go digging it up lol) and make sure the pots have plenty drainage, fabric pots or air pots are best for that, and you can chuck a gallon a day at seedlings if you really wanted to.
It’s pretty hard to “over water” straight coco too but can say I’ve tried it. Wouldnt worry about it though. Got fabric pots there by the look of it so should be fine. Just add some perilite next time and you can forget the term “over watering” even exists

 

[EvilScotsman]

Oh and always feed to run off. It helps to rinse away excess nutes and stops you getting build ups that lead to all sorts of nasty problems. Keep the feed light aswell. The strength your feeding now will most likely do you the full grow. I don’t need to go above 450ppm when growing autos in 3gal fabrics. At that stage I’m only on 200ppm. I know the manufacturer says xyz but your best to just learn how to judge it. The a/n “drip to waste” schedule is probably the best I’ve seen though to be fair.
if you go by the lower numbers it’s pretty spot on.

 

[Beerhunter CDN]

Oh and always feed to run off. It helps to rinse away excess nutes and stops you getting build ups that lead to all sorts of nasty problems. Keep the feed light aswell. The strength your feeding now will most likely do you the full grow. I don’t need to go above 450ppm when growing autos in 3gal fabrics. At that stage I’m only on 200ppm. I know the manufacturer says xyz but your best to just learn how to judge it. The a/n “drip to waste” schedule is probably the best I’ve seen though to be fair.
if you go by the lower numbers it’s pretty spot on.

Thank you for the advice @EvilScotsman @Waira

I watered another 500ml of pH 6.1 at 1/2 nutes as I used two probes to check for moisture before digging down an inch to check for moisture. I then left the pots for an hour and checked again for moisture in different depths and areas of the pot to get an idea of how moist the coco was. I used an Accurate 8 probe to check for pH and each pot has pH 6.8

I’ve also ordered more TDS/EC calibration solution to verify my TDS pen as I’m flying blind without it. I also inherited an RO system that needs a little work so I will fix that up. Until then I’ll be off to pick up some bottled RO water to eliminate the potential for tap water problems. Hopefully I will get this straightened out before it damages my other two plants. Sorry for the sideways pics, I forgot to take them with my phone sideways.

 

[Beerhunter CDN]

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