Deficiency or burn?

[Rev. Green Genes]

Thanks for looking, @Waira. Soil is a mix:

2 gallons Pro-Mix vegetable
.5 gallon coco
.5 gallon Mushroom compost (bag)
.5 gallon composted chicken manure (bag)
.5 gallon worm castings
1 gallon perlite
1 cup alfalfa meal
5 tbs Mex Bat Guano
5 Tbs Seabird Guano
1 cup dolomite lime
3 tbs Rock Phosphate
.5 cup bone meal
10 tbs bone meal
5 tbs blood meal
1 tbs granular humic acid

I’ll PM you a link to the 6-12-6 nutes. For what it’s worth, it’s a very popular organic fertilizer used for all sorts of gardening in our region. There isn’t an organic oriented nursery/supply store within 150 miles that doesn’t use, support and sell it; and a bunch of tomato growers (like me) have used it outdoors with great success. Now, that doesn’t mean it’s going to be good for canna. I had some issues with other plants that I’d been using Mega Crop on and I decided to try some of the 6-12-6 I had laying around. I’m trying to isolate what I’m doing wrong. Lol! 95% of my issues are in my inside grow. Outdoors I had very little issues. Indoors....ugh!

That is a really good mix you have there. That is nearly identical to what I use for soils. I am wondering, how long did the soil sit between mixing it and planting in it? If you planted straight in it, as I mentioned before, the microbes will build up, then they take more and more nutes and it may appear defficient. As they die off, or are replaced, they release it in plant available form. Once in a while, this is enough to unbalance the pH.

Here are the last set of additives I used, maybe a couple more things in there. Sprouts for example. And I mixed them in as they sprouted. Sat a couple months. I highly recommend getting some Azomite if you are gonna go organic. You will eventually need micronutes, might as well add em

 

[DTOM420]

That is a really good mix you have there. That is nearly identical to what I use for soils. I am wondering, how long did the soil sit between mixing it and planting in it? If you planted straight in it, as I mentioned before, the microbes will build up, then they take more and more nutes and it may appear defficient. As they die off, or are replaced, they release it in plant available form. Once in a while, this is enough to unbalance the pH.

Here are the last set of additives I used, maybe a couple more things in there. Sprouts for example. And I mixed them in as they sprouted. Sat a couple months. I highly recommend getting some Azomite if you are gonna go organic. You will eventually need micronutes, might as well add em

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Thanks Rev! The explanation about fluctuations in the soil mixture makes sense. I did mix it and use it just a couple days later. I didn’t have the forethought to plan everything out, mix soil, and let it sit. I’m still trying to get organized and wanting to play with mixes to find one that works for me. Still trying to wrap my head around it all. I’ve also been adding a lot of microbial life with regular doses of Recharge. <—Could this be part of the problem I’m experiencing?

I was sure hoping that this soil mixture would require little or no nutes to be added; and having issues around day 40 is pretty discouraging.

Like I said, I did a light flush yesterday with a full dose of Sledgehammer because it was too soon to give it a big flush, as I had fed recently and I didn’t want to over-water them. After PMing with Waira I realized that those 6-12-6 nutes I gave we’re NOT organic and maybe not good. So, I wanted to flush them as best as I could, in case they were part of the problem.

What would you suggest now? I was thinking to let them be for a couple of days and see how the flush does. Or, would you be watching them and reacting quickly? This is another thing that trips me up: On the one hand, when I see a leaf issue I want to jump to correct a problem ASAP. On the other hand, how do you know one day or two days later, as symptoms worsen or change, whether this is a reaction to your efforts OR whether it’s further result of the original issue because your “fix” has not had time to take hold yet?

Really appreciate the help, brother!

 

[DTOM420]

That is a really good mix you have there. That is nearly identical to what I use for soils. I am wondering, how long did the soil sit between mixing it and planting in it? If you planted straight in it, as I mentioned before, the microbes will build up, then they take more and more nutes and it may appear defficient. As they die off, or are replaced, they release it in plant available form. Once in a while, this is enough to unbalance the pH.

Here are the last set of additives I used, maybe a couple more things in there. Sprouts for example. And I mixed them in as they sprouted. Sat a couple months. I highly recommend getting some Azomite if you are gonna go organic. You will eventually need micronutes, might as well add em

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I’m also beginning to wonder about my water. I’m feeding well water that comes out of the tap “moderately hard” (6 grains per gallon hardness) but has a TDS of 980-1025 and a pH of 7.8. That’s a lot of unknown TDS and our water doesn’t taste good. It tastes NASTY, actually; and we drink bottled water. To me, the water kinda tastes a bit salty but it’s hard to tell behind the overall bad flavor. Lol! It takes me 8-9ml of General Hydroponics PH Down to get it into the 6.2-6.3 range and that seems like an awful lot. I hate adding that much but it’s the only way I have to reach proper pH. While I like that I’m providing calcium through my well water (I still regularly add cal/mag to my water) I’m considering a RO system. It’d also allow me and my family to drink our well water and I found a relatively affordable system that’ll give me 300 gallons per day or 12.5 gallons per hour which is more than I need normally but would allow me to feed RO water to my very thirsty outdoor gardens in the summer’s extreme heat.

Do you think we’ll water could be a problem and would using RO water be a good idea? I hate the idea of wasting the water but my understanding is that an RO system usually puts out water right around 6.5 which would eliminate or greatly reduce the need for PH Down. Plus, if only a slight pH adjustment is required, I could afford to use Apple Cider Vinegar instead of chemical PH Down; and that’d make me feel better also.

Your thoughts?

 

[DTOM420]

I just checked in on them and it’s still progressing. The picture below is another leaf I didn’t see before. Maybe this one will help identify the deficiency. @Waira and @Rev. Green Genes do y’all still feel like it’s a K deficiency?

Now, a 25 day old auto that I have next to the 2 plants this thread is about, is showing the EXACT same initial indicator that the two older plants did! Check it out below. She JUST received her first feeding and got 1/3 of a gallon of that same 6-12-6 nute at 1/4 strength and she’s in 5 gallons of, essentially, the same soil mixture I listed earlier in the thread. Only difference is her mix also has some kelp meal and some crustacean meal in it as well as the other ingredients. It all starts with the biggest, oldest leaf on the plant....just like this:

 

[Natsu]

That's crazy high haha, I live on a acreage and use well water as well, my water comes out of the tap at about 400ppm and ph around 8. What we do here is pump the waste water into a big tank, then when the tank fills up we pump it back into well to minimise the amount of water wasted. I would definitely suggest doing if your going to go with the RO system as it works great for us. We have to haul our water from a well about a 10 min drive from our property. Do you have to haul your water as well? I think a RO system would definitely be a good idea. I don't think its a ph issue considering you're checking it often. But it could have something to do with how high the ppm of your water is.

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

I’m also beginning to wonder about my water. I’m feeding well water that comes out of the tap “moderately hard” (6 grains per gallon hardness) but has a TDS of 980-1025 and a pH of 7.8. That’s a lot of unknown TDS and our water doesn’t taste good. It tastes NASTY, actually; and we drink bottled water. To me, the water kinda tastes a bit salty but it’s hard to tell behind the overall bad flavor. Lol! It takes me 8-9ml of General Hydroponics PH Down to get it into the 6.2-6.3 range and that seems like an awful lot. I hate adding that much but it’s the only way I have to reach proper pH. While I like that I’m providing calcium through my well water (I still regularly add cal/mag to my water) I’m considering a RO system. It’d also allow me and my family to drink our well water and I found a relatively affordable system that’ll give me 300 gallons per day or 12.5 gallons per hour which is more than I need normally but would allow me to feed RO water to my very thirsty outdoor gardens in the summer’s extreme heat.

Do you think we’ll water could be a problem and would using RO water be a good idea? I hate the idea of wasting the water but my understanding is that an RO system usually puts out water right around 6.5 which would eliminate or greatly reduce the need for PH Down. Plus, if only a slight pH adjustment is required, I could afford to use Apple Cider Vinegar instead of chemical PH Down; and that’d make me feel better also.

Your thoughts?

I highly recommend filtration. RO is best, but it's slow and expensive. If you can swing, by all means go ahead. Nothing better. I think we are onto your core problem here, 1000 is WAY too high regardless of well or city water.

The other way is to get the first half of an RO system, but bigger, for your whole house. Here is a pic of what I got, it cost well under 100 including the plumbing parts, and took about an hour to install. It saves my appliances, my health, and my weed.

The first filter is carbon 10 micron, the second filter is ceramic 1 micron. It would likely drop your native PPM substantially, at least half I would guess down to 100 PPM or so.. With a well, you will have to replace the first filter every month or two, and the second one every third or fourth month. I plan to add a third someday, but it works great for now. City water is terrible.

it includes a secondary house shut off valve, a hose faucet to drain when changing filters, a backflow preventer, and all the connections. If you go this route, it will not prevent you from adding a RO system, it will make the RO system work better and change filters way less often.

 

[DTOM420]

Here are some pics from today and things progress. I fed them each a half gallon with 1tsp MegaCrop (that’s 2/3 strength dose). 1/2 tsp of Roots Organic HPK (1/2 dose), 1 teaspoon of Microblast (full strength) Great White Myco, Recharge and Mammoth P - all pH’d to 6.2. @Waira

Here’s one plant:

Here’s the other plant:

That's crazy high haha, I live on a acreage and use well water as well, my water comes out of the tap at about 400ppm and ph around 8. What we do here is pump the waste water into a big tank, then when the tank fills up we pump it back into well to minimise the amount of water wasted. I would definitely suggest doing if your going to go with the RO system as it works great for us. We have to haul our water from a well about a 10 min drive from our property. Do you have to haul your water as well? I think a RO system would definitely be a good idea. I don't think its a ph issue considering you're checking it often. But it could have something to do with how high the ppm of your water is.

That’s what I was thinking - about the ppm and WHAT that is made up of. I’m going to complete the order today. What’s weird, though, is that my outdoor garden in same/similar soil and using that same water had NO real nutrient issues - just some bug issues. But, it sure can’t hurt.

 

[DTOM420]

I highly recommend filtration. RO is best, but it's slow and expensive. If you can swing, by all means go ahead. Nothing better. I think we are onto your core problem here, 1000 is WAY too high regardless of well or city water.

The other way is to get the first half of an RO system, but bigger, for your whole house. Here is a pic of what I got, it cost well under 100 including the plumbing parts, and took about an hour to install. It saves my appliances, my health, and my weed.

View attachment 973150

The first filter is carbon 10 micron, the second filter is ceramic 1 micron. It would likely drop your native PPM substantially, at least half I would guess down to 100 PPM or so.. With a well, you will have to replace the first filter every month or two, and the second one every third or fourth month. I plan to add a third someday, but it works great for now. City water is terrible.

it includes a secondary house shut off valve, a hose faucet to drain when changing filters, a backflow preventer, and all the connections. If you go this route, it will not prevent you from adding a RO system, it will make the RO system work better and change filters way less often.

I’m going to install it outdoors primarily for the garden but I can fill 1 gallon jugs for drinking water. It robs too much pressure for the house. When we can afford it I’m going to get a softener for the house. The RO system I’m buying has built in pre-filters (sediment and Carbon) before it gets to the two RO membranes. It also has a flush system to help maintain the membranes.

What do you think about that feeding I just gave? Think it might help?

 

[Natsu]

@DTOM420 This is copy pasted from Wikipedia, I was curious of makes up the ppm in water myself so I did a quick search. Hard water is water that has high mineral content (in contrast with "soft water"). Hard water is formed when water percolates through deposits of limestone and chalk which are largely made up of calcium and magnesium carbonates. I think its weird too that only the indoor plants are affected by it, I would think that all plants would suffer similar issues. Maybe the plants are a little more sensitive in a indoor environment. I haven't done a outdoor grow yet but that's my theory. I want to try a outdoor organic next summer.

 

[DTOM420]

@DTOM420 This is copy pasted from Wikipedia, I was curious of makes up the ppm in water myself so I did a quick search. Hard water is water that has high mineral content (in contrast with "soft water"). Hard water is formed when water percolates through deposits of limestone and chalk which are largely made up of calcium and magnesium carbonates. I think its weird too that only the indoor plants are affected by it, I would think that all plants would suffer similar issues. Maybe the plants are a little more sensitive in a indoor environment. I haven't done a outdoor grow yet but that's my theory. I want to try a outdoor organic next summer.

I hear ya. I can’t explain it either. Lol! The biggest difference between the grows is the light; but I can’t see how the light could be in any way contributing to these issues. So, what else can I blame? Lol. That soil recipe I used (listed above) ought to have everything these plants need and I add all the microbes they should need, in case they’re not naturally there. I’m just scratching my head.

Wish I’d have one of those “ah-HA!” moments where I could find out what I’m doing wrong. Never had this much problem back in the 80’s and 90’s! LMAO!