Deficiency or burn?

[Waira]

-- well, the charts are more of a guideline, nothing absolute about the various "zones" for given growth stage, other mitigating factors (like air movement strength) are in play as well, plus the whole leaf surface temp/air temp differential thing... If you're close to the right zone, likely it's not a significant factor in most cases; if you're not, or close to the "red", then you know it likely is!
If you wanted to get anal about it, you'd need a IR thermo' unit to take that temp. reading, then run the calculations yourself using the right chart,... rather impractical! The video is actually a good one for laying out the more practical application side of this,... Big picutre, seedlings and young plants like more RH%, and this tapers down more and more as you go into bloom, especially at the latest stages when the plant just plain isn't doing much of anything anymore, not drinking, using much nutes, etc.,....
Good on the EC unit.... What's this moisture meter you mention, part of the sentence is missing-

 

[DTOM420]

-- well, the charts are more of a guideline, nothing absolute about the various "zones" for given growth stage, other mitigating factors (like air movement strength) are in play as well, plus the whole leaf surface temp/air temp differential thing... If you're close to the right zone, likely it's not a significant factor in most cases; if you're not, or close to the "red", then you know it likely is!
If you wanted to get anal about it, you'd need a IR thermo' unit to take that temp. reading, then run the calculations yourself using the right chart,... rather impractical! The video is actually a good one for laying out the more practical application side of this,... Big picutre, seedlings and young plants like more RH%, and this tapers down more and more as you go into bloom, especially at the latest stages when the plant just plain isn't doing much of anything anymore, not drinking, using much nutes, etc.,....
Good on the EC unit.... What's this moisture meter you mention, part of the sentence is missing-

Meant to say....The Blumats digital moisture meter uses the same ceramic sensor as their carrots (their moisture sensing drippers) and it uses a pressure reading at the soil level they’re placed in to read the moisture level. I’m not scientific enough to explain the inner workings but I’ve heard from several guys that are and I REALLY respect (like you) that they are VERY useful.

From Blumat’s SustainableVillage.com website:

“works in a similar way to the Tropf-Blumat but it does not control watering. It measures the levels of moisture and/ or dryness. It operates using the tensiometer principle and indicates the amount of force necessary for a plant to absorb water.

This method of measurement allows for very accurate recognition of the level of moisture near the roots and therefore, a more exact application of water - whether by hand in large container plantings. For example, when over- wintering plants, it's very important to keep a moderate moisture level - sometimes harder than watching for this during the growing season. And of course in the summer for monitoring and adjusting your watering schedules. Knowing the moisture level in large containers is no longer a matter guesswork and experience, but rather of concrete numerical data.

The lower the number readings, the more wet the soil. On average, the standard Blumat setting of two arrows down from a drop holding = 120 mb. (Ideal settings for cannabis growing = 120-150 mb in veg, 150-180 in bloom). The higher the reading, the more dry.”

 

[Waira]

..sounds good to me,....

 

[Wallflower82]

Oh boy you have been dealing with a problem ladyl. Reading about how you got your ppms down like that really makes me wanna flush that blue amnesia and see how high hers are... probably not as high as yours yikes! So all your plants that are getting this water, do they all display similar signs ? Does it seem worse on ones with the fox farm soil ?

 

[DTOM420]

Oh boy you have been dealing with a problem ladyl. Reading about how you got your ppms down like that really makes me wanna flush that blue amnesia and see how high hers are... probably not as high as yours yikes! So all your plants that are getting this water, do they all display similar signs ? Does it seem worse on ones with the fox farm soil ?

The problem was FAR more severe on one particular plant - Blue Widow. Problem ongoing and even though its budding fairly well, it's looking like it has stalled a bit and the upper fans are looking worse now! Lol! Can't wait to be finished with her. I'm having and have had issues with numerous plants but I can't say for sure it's the soil. Everything I have grown until recently has been in one soil or another or a mix of them and further amended. I really believe it's due to the water quality. I also think it has to do with my incorporation of some coco into my soil - some of the stuff has coco in it and I added some to others to try it. BIG mistake! I didn't know a damn thing about coco; like the fact that it accumulates salt and nutrients or that it needs to be flushed. Imagine all those PMs in my well water on top of some salt-based notes I started with and that soil got overloaded. That's entirely MY fault, though. It's my lack of knowledge on coco that created the problem. What I'm going through now is still resulting from the water issue despite the fact that I'm now watering with cleaner water. The roots and rhizosphere is probably so messed up that it could never be repaired. At this point I'm essentially giving a terminal patient some light food and loads of painkillers to get her through to SOME sort of harvest on her. "Fixing" her is out of the question. I also think some of my issues are light related, as you'll see in my next post directed at Waira.

You don't need to "FLUSH" your plant to check the runoff. Just water her to about 20% runoff and catch some of that to test for PPM/EC and pH. IF your numbers are really high, THEN you can consider a flush - to get them down into acceptable range.

 

[DTOM420]

@Waira I'm still having major issues with the same plant and wanted to run a couple of things by you.

1. While the main issue presents like a severe K deficiency, when I added a really strong PK boost like the Bud Explosion, the symptoms seemed to get WORSE. Immediately and very noticeably. this really confused me. I know you're not a fan of BE because of the proportions so I tried feeding the Roots Organic HPK with every watering because it's so weak. I even added Mammoth P, Recharge and molasses to try and help facilitate the uptake of the K. Nope. Problem still has gotten worse. How could adding K make the symptoms of a K deficiency worse?

2. I decided to remove some of the fan leafs that were so burnt and yellow looking that they were doing nothing but shading buds. Well, while I was doing a little defoliation I noticed that down inside the canopy and in the more heavily shaded areas of the plant, the fan leafs were with showing MUCH less of the K deficiency symptoms OR there were ZERO signs! WTH?? Then I noticed that while most of the outer exposed fan leafs (over the entire plant) showed the deficiency symptoms, the upper fans were clearly the most effected. That got me thinking.....could this be a light issue or could the light be making the issue much worse? Here's a picture of one branch from the top followed by a couple shots of the leaves further down, after I had pulled the branch down so you can see into the shaded interior section of the branch....

Here is a picture of some of the top buds that are NOW about 18" below the light. I have the light as high up as it'll go.

Here's a similar set of picture of the similar (albeit less affected) problem plant. You can see the deficiency leaf symptom on the more exposed fan leafs but once you bend the branch down and look at the more shaded leafs, the symptoms all but disappear and the leafs look pretty healthy. So weird!

I DO remember that these symptoms first began showing when I moved the plants from a T5 fixture they were originally vegging under, into the tent and put them under the 600w 3000K LED light. This has been true of almost every plant I've grown under this light. Again, the timing is suspicious. Wouldn't it make sense that there may be some sort of connection between the light and the problems I'm having? Is there any way you can think of? Is it possible that the symptoms (yellowing on tips and sides along with burnt looking tips and leaf edges) are a reaction to too much light rather than a nutrient deficiency?

There's NO doubt in my mind that there are several things going on with this plant (as well as the other one that has far less symptoms) and that soil PH problems, nutrient buildup and the initial water quality problems have either caused or exacerbated the problem. But do you think there's a connection to the light as well? Thinking back...it seems like every plant I've started under the T5 6500K fixture has done well and looked pretty darn healthy UNTIL it went into the flower tent and that big, powerful LED fixture. Of course, all of them also had the bad water, the same/similar soil, etc. LOL! Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels here but I'd REALLY like to figure out what the hell this black thumb of mine is doing wrong!

 

[Wallflower82]

I can’t wait to see what @Waira says about all that, damn. You know what’s weird I had a very very similar issue though. See I’ve never used LED before but I’m guessing they’re pretty intense.. anyways the deficiencies on my blue amnesia were always worse at the top (until the very end when she went completely yellow and lost every fan leaf. She still finished though and she’s wonderful). Anyways prior to that, the only green leafs I had left toward the end were bottom. Eventually those went too, I’m guessing,because they no longer had shade and now suffered the fate as those before them. Didn’t know if it was the intensity of lights exacerbating it all or what, but it became that much more pronounced once I had 2 autocobs over her at the end. She ended up giving about 19 sticky grams and a great batch of edibles from the trim tho .. so I ain’t complaining

That blue widow— is it a blueberry cross? Back when I played with photos I recall some blueberry pitching a fit literally over any food. They did NOT like fox farm ocean forest I can tell ya that lol.. maybe you got a blue leaning pheno who just isn’t having any of that— not your water the fox farm or explosion

 

[Waira]

dude , I'm about to throw in the towel on this, I'm out of ideas,... As mentioned before, the bitch about K is both defc. and toxicity look pretty much the same! very annoying,... Adding the BE and getting worse indicates the latter, and/or the soil is back to ion overload and nothing is getting in well,... MP doesn't do anything for K,... If it's K-tox, then adding more anything organic or not isn't going to help, too much is too much.....
The light may be in play, sure, depending on the distance recommended for it and the VPD,... You tell me! ......a lot of action goes on at those teeth tips along the margin, a larger set of "tubes" leading out,.. a lot of transpiration on more exposed leaves vs inners is a definite possibility... Remote possibility is something wonky with the light, maybe even built-in (diode fuck-up at factory, malfunction, etc.,...)

 

[DTOM420]

dude , I'm about to throw in the towel on this, I'm out of ideas,... As mentioned before, the bitch about K is both defc. and toxicity look pretty much the same! very annoying,... Adding the BE and getting worse indicates the latter, and/or the soil is back to ion overload and nothing is getting in well,... MP doesn't do anything for K,... If it's K-tox, then adding more anything organic or not isn't going to help, too much is too much.....
The light may be in play, sure, depending on the distance recommended for it and the VPD,... You tell me! ......a lot of action goes on at those teeth tips along the margin, a larger set of "tubes" leading out,.. a of transpiration on more exposed leaves vs inners is a definite possibility... Remote possibility is something wonky with the light, maybe even built-in (diode fuck-up at factory, malfunction, etc.,...)

No worries. Just gonna let her finish with plain water and I won’t bug ya about her any more. Thanks for the help brother

 

[Waira]

you're not bugging me mate, it's just that this set of plants is all over the road trying to cross the finish line! We have ground out just about everything I can come up with remotely to figure and fix,.... you have gone to serious lengths to as well, and still, this shit keeps happening .... The big x-factor was whatever the hell is in that well water, but that's fixed with the RO system,.... lingering crap in the soil, especially stuff that's "stuck", bound up, not flushable may be part of this, messing with uptake; that the inner veg' is in better shape than the outer, more exposed leaves is a definite clue,... your lights are at the right distance, T and RH% are OK (VPD), air movement isn't blasting? these can make for stressful transpiration rates, and force-draw more nutes up along with the water... with no where to go, and not getting used faste enough, they accumulate and start to burn locally.....