First time building my soil, would love to hear your thoughts, peat, pumice and (mostly) gaia green

[AtomC]

Hey everyone, first post here, first I want to introduce myself and say thanks for all the great info around here. Every time I am searching for answers I always end up here so I figured it's time to make an account and hopefully participate a bit more. I'm looking for some opinions and or tips on the soil I'm putting together for my next grow. I'm growing in a 2x2 and 2x4, planning to start 2-3 plants every 50-60 days, harvesting from the 2x4 and moving the plants from the 2x2 over then starting again. Meaning I will be mixing/re-amending 15-20 gallons of soil at a time after I've gotten the first 2 rounds started. Currently planning to use 5G fabric pots, I may move up to 7G if I have the space for them and see the need.


The recipe I have cooking currently is:

Base:

50%-7.5G Sphagnum peat

26.5%-4G Medium Pumice

6.5%-1G Hydroton

17%2.5G Worm Castings


Amendments:

2C Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4

1/4C Azomite

1/4C Diatomaceous Earth

1/4C Ag Lime

1C Neem Meal

2C Alfalfa Meal

1/2C Kelp Meal

2C Bokashi

1/2C Glacial Rock Dust

1/2C Basalt Rock Dust

1/2C Oyster shell flour

1/2C gypsum


Currently planning to let this cook, remove 5 gallons and set aside for the top 1/3 of 3 5G pots, and add 1 cup of Gaia Green Power Bloom 2-8-4 to the remaining 10 G when I pot so this slowly becomes available over the first month or so of growth. I'm not sure if this 2-8-4 is even necessary, and if it is whether my timed addition is the way to go so I'd be interested in opinions on that. When I run out of the premixed dry amendments I will most likely purchase individual amendments instead of the mix, but right now I have this on hand so I'd rather use it up. Any tips on where to source bat and seabird guanos or crab/crustacean meal for the future in canada would be appreciated as it seems Gaia Green doesn't have a ton of options.


The other things I am concerned about are:

Magnesium, especially in relation to the amount of calcium. Wondering if I should be adding some dolomite lime as well, or just some epsom salts (how much?) because there seems to be adequate calcium otherwise.



I have RO water, and will be using blumats with distribution drippers. I'm curious about what people are adding to RO water in organics, especially in blumats where the water will sit in a reservoir and clogging lines can be a concern. I currently have botanicare calmag+, but have read conflicting opinions about EDTA and what amounts are harmful to soil life. General organics calmag is apparently soon to be unavailable and not necessarily organic either according to my local shop.


In addition to the blumats I plan to water in a compost tea once a week as I have been, any recipes for different stages of growth would be much appreciated. Currently I do 6l (1.5G) with 1 T blackstrap Mollases, 1/2C worm castings, 1 T seaweed extract and 1t Raw Microbes for 24 hours. It has been working quite well.


Also if anyone is a blumat expert I'd love to pick your brain. I'm currently growing in FFOF using the digital moisture meter to dial in, and I feel like the moisture it is reading fluctuates a lot more than I am lead to believe by what i've read about setting them up and setting a moisture level. Maybe my sensors are up against some perlite, or my moisture meter is having issues somehow? I'd be happy to explore possible solutions to this, as my current grow seemed to have some overwatering issues and slowly turning down the blumats never really seemed to solve it.


If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Appreciate the wealth of knowledge here on this site, and I've read through the entire soil building sticky as well as plenty of other info that I'd be lost without. So thanks.

 

[Proph]

Welcome to AFN! Glad you are out of the shadows! Now the work starts, lol. Sooo.. As you may learn, my advice will always be based around nature and plant health.. With that said.. It sounds like you are wanting to grow organically, using water only. Lots of homework for you to get into on that topic.. My suggestion is to 1st research living soils and pot sizes. Anywhooo.. On to your mix.. The base sounds about right.. But I do not understand the amendments.. Maybe a little too much going on. I personally would not try to layer the soils. Imo, that kind of defeats the purpose of mixing an all in one organic soil. You need to pick which way you are going to amend your base soil.. It's either pre mix the gaia 444, or the 284( I personally would not even bother with the 284 at all) .. Or, add the individual ingredients separately like you listed. Doing both, or all three is over kill. My advice? Read up on what's in gaia green 444.. Because its the EXACT same list of amendments that you listed individually. Using both at the same time will likely cause over feeding issues.. Even more so if the 284 is layered in.

From there I would do a tad bit of research on that list of amendments. Learn what each one does in soil and what it's for. What nutrients it provides and how.. I say this because once you do that research, you won't be wondering about magnesium/calcium ratios or if you need a ph buffer. Once a week compost tea sounds like a lot to me.. I use compost teas like once or twice a month.. I can't think of anyone I know, or a situation where I'd feed a compost tea weekly.. I'm not a bluemat user nor do I use an automated water set up. I slowly hand water the old school way so sorry I can't help there.

Im sure others will come along with advice as well. Just try to remember that less is more.. And that once you mix that soil and water it, you cant take anything out of it when problems arise... So it's better and easier to amend or feed as needed, instead of trying to pack everything into the soil mix. This way you will have way more control over any issues.

 

[AtomC]

Welcome to AFN! Glad you are out of the shadows! Now the work starts, lol. Sooo.. As you may learn, my advice will always be based around nature and plant health.. With that said.. It sounds like you are wanting to grow organically, using water only. Lots of homework for you to get into on that topic.. My suggestion is to 1st research living soils and pot sizes. Anywhooo.. On to your mix.. The base sounds about right.. But I do not understand the amendments.. Maybe a little too much going on. I personally would not try to layer the soils. Imo, that kind of defeats the purpose of mixing an all in one organic soil. You need to pick which way you are going to amend your base soil.. It's either pre mix the gaia 444, or the 284( I personally would not even bother with the 284 at all) .. Or, add the individual ingredients separately like you listed. Doing both, or all three is over kill. My advice? Read up on what's in gaia green 444.. Because its the EXACT same list of amendments that you listed individually. Using both at the same time will likely cause over feeding issues.. Even more so if the 284 is layered in.

From there I would do a tad bit of research on that list of amendments. Learn what each one does in soil and what it's for. What nutrients it provides and how.. I say this because once you do that research, you won't be wondering about magnesium/calcium ratios or if you need a ph buffer. Once a week compost tea sounds like a lot to me.. I use compost teas like once or twice a month.. I can't think of anyone I know, or a situation where I'd feed a compost tea weekly.. I'm not a bluemat user nor do I use an automated water set up. I slowly hand water the old school way so sorry I can't help there.

Im sure others will come along with advice as well. Just try to remember that less is more.. And that once you mix that soil and water it, you cant take anything out of it when problems arise... So it's better and easier to amend or feed as needed, instead of trying to pack everything into the soil mix. This way you will have way more control over any issues.

Hey, thanks for the welcome, appreciate it. First off, I hear you on the pot sizes. I would love to go with a single large bed in the 2x4 tent, or better yet have more space in general for growing but I am trying to balance the space I have (including for the soil to cook) with a somewhat efficient harvest cycle. It's not ideal but it's what I have to work with unfortunately. I guess I'll discover for myself whether it is a worthwhile way to go about things.


As for the repeat of gaia ingredients, that was intentional. Whether it is correct or not remains to be seen. I was basing the basic mix on a coots recipe I found, that called for 4 cups of rock dust mix (glacial, basalt, oyster shell, gypsum) per CF of base soil. I went with 2 cups total in 2 CF, and 2 cups of the gaia 4-4-4, as well as half the recommended kelp meal, so I feel like I'm a little under the recommended amounts still from the recipe I was working from. Certainly not saying I'm right, just trying to explain where the items came from. My understanding was that certain minerals in the rock dusts would become available quite slowly, and would be re-amended at a much lower rate.

I guess I felt like the Gaia 4-4-4 needed help because to get the amounts of the less active items I see in other recipes I feel like it would be a nuclear amount of things supplying the macro nutrients. Again, just doing my best to piece together what I've gathered from so many places.


I have done a lot of reading (and listened to a lot of podcasts) on the topic, but I absolutely admit I have trouble putting all of that information into a coherent plan. I do see that I probably took items from different recipes I found that serve the same purpose, but should be used as one or the other as opposed to both together.


Thanks for that last line of yours. I've been trying to pack everything I need into the mix after being impressed by people making it all the way to harvest without having to add anything. I'm getting that getting to that point is a process, and I'm probably not going to nail it the first try but it will be less of a catastrophe to have to add something vs having too much.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. As you can see I've got a lot to learn.

 

[hecno]

Welcome AtomC Good to see you here , I can't help in any way as I don't understand your base .

50%-7.5G Sphagnum peat

26.5%-4G Medium Pumice

6.5%-1G Hydroton

Where doe's soil come into it , is it not closer to Hydro .

 

[Marshydro]

Hey everyone, first post here, first I want to introduce myself and say thanks for all the great info around here. Every time I am searching for answers I always end up here so I figured it's time to make an account and hopefully participate a bit more. I'm looking for some opinions and or tips on the soil I'm putting together for my next grow. I'm growing in a 2x2 and 2x4, planning to start 2-3 plants every 50-60 days, harvesting from the 2x4 and moving the plants from the 2x2 over then starting again. Meaning I will be mixing/re-amending 15-20 gallons of soil at a time after I've gotten the first 2 rounds started. Currently planning to use 5G fabric pots, I may move up to 7G if I have the space for them and see the need.


The recipe I have cooking currently is:

Base:

50%-7.5G Sphagnum peat

26.5%-4G Medium Pumice

6.5%-1G Hydroton

17%2.5G Worm Castings


Amendments:

2C Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4

1/4C Azomite

1/4C Diatomaceous Earth

1/4C Ag Lime

1C Neem Meal

2C Alfalfa Meal

1/2C Kelp Meal

2C Bokashi

1/2C Glacial Rock Dust

1/2C Basalt Rock Dust

1/2C Oyster shell flour

1/2C gypsum


Currently planning to let this cook, remove 5 gallons and set aside for the top 1/3 of 3 5G pots, and add 1 cup of Gaia Green Power Bloom 2-8-4 to the remaining 10 G when I pot so this slowly becomes available over the first month or so of growth. I'm not sure if this 2-8-4 is even necessary, and if it is whether my timed addition is the way to go so I'd be interested in opinions on that. When I run out of the premixed dry amendments I will most likely purchase individual amendments instead of the mix, but right now I have this on hand so I'd rather use it up. Any tips on where to source bat and seabird guanos or crab/crustacean meal for the future in canada would be appreciated as it seems Gaia Green doesn't have a ton of options.


The other things I am concerned about are:

Magnesium, especially in relation to the amount of calcium. Wondering if I should be adding some dolomite lime as well, or just some epsom salts (how much?) because there seems to be adequate calcium otherwise.



I have RO water, and will be using blumats with distribution drippers. I'm curious about what people are adding to RO water in organics, especially in blumats where the water will sit in a reservoir and clogging lines can be a concern. I currently have botanicare calmag+, but have read conflicting opinions about EDTA and what amounts are harmful to soil life. General organics calmag is apparently soon to be unavailable and not necessarily organic either according to my local shop.


In addition to the blumats I plan to water in a compost tea once a week as I have been, any recipes for different stages of growth would be much appreciated. Currently I do 6l (1.5G) with 1 T blackstrap Mollases, 1/2C worm castings, 1 T seaweed extract and 1t Raw Microbes for 24 hours. It has been working quite well.


Also if anyone is a blumat expert I'd love to pick your brain. I'm currently growing in FFOF using the digital moisture meter to dial in, and I feel like the moisture it is reading fluctuates a lot more than I am lead to believe by what i've read about setting them up and setting a moisture level. Maybe my sensors are up against some perlite, or my moisture meter is having issues somehow? I'd be happy to explore possible solutions to this, as my current grow seemed to have some overwatering issues and slowly turning down the blumats never really seemed to solve it.


If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Appreciate the wealth of knowledge here on this site, and I've read through the entire soil building sticky as well as plenty of other info that I'd be lost without. So thanks.

Welcome here. I could help provide info. on Lights parts:smoking:

 

[Tom Bombadil]

good start would be imo:

Build-A-Flower Top Dress Kit

Build-A-Flower is available again!!. Malibu Compost was delayed in reaching us, causing production delays on the Build-A-Flower, so the recipe has changed. 2 Gallon Bags are delayed and will ship out within 2-3 weeks. Build A Flower Top Dress kit 3 Types of Compost + Added Minerals. Top dress...

buildasoil.com

BuildASoil Craft Blend - Nutrient Pack

BuildASoil Craft Blend started with a big workshop full of the best and cleanest soil amendments available. I quickly became spoiled and would use all of the BuildASoil ingredients together and in different combinations that aren't available here online. After discussing re-amending with a...

buildasoil.com

Living Organic Soil - Oly Mountain Compost

Living Organic Soil Ready To Plant Into The Moment It Arrives At Your Door!! Hand Made, Small Batch, Artisan Quality. SUMMER LEAD TIME: 14 days, Truckloads 6+ Weeks We Use approximately 7.5 Gallons per Cubic Foot ---> View the Soil Test Analysis here: Living Soil Test Results with Oly Mountain...

buildasoil.com

grokashi, barley straw, ro water, organic calmag supplement , mammoth p, recharge, #7 pots minimum (true 5 gal) min.. and keep a box of nematodes in the fridge for gnat control...if needed.

gl

 

[AtomC]

Welcome AtomC Good to see you here , I can't help in any way as I don't understand your base .

50%-7.5G Sphagnum peat

26.5%-4G Medium Pumice

6.5%-1G Hydroton

Where doe's soil come into it , is it not closer to Hydro .

Hey Hecno, I got a few pages into your ongoing organics thread last night but damn thats a lot of pages. Interesting stuff from what I saw, and some nice looking peppers although I'm sure that was a while ago. Hope you are still going strong on the peppers, that is what actually led me to growing my own autos over the last while. The page I was working from on the KIS organics blog has disappeared literally in the last week, but I found a similar recipe with slightly different proportions that I won't link to because it's a product page and don't want to break any rules if they exist. You left the worm castings out of the quote of my base haha, I wish I had access to some decent compost, but this recipe seems to think just the castings will get the job done, even if it's not perfect. Looking at ingredients lists for a lot of the organic potting soils out there, I don't see a lot more than these ingredients in many of them. I'd love to know what in your opinion makes soil soil?


This is basically what I'm going, with a bit of my own twist (probably a mistake but I am who I am ha). and some changes based on access to ingredients.


For Blending and Topdressing:

Malted Barley

For Mixing in Soil:

Crustacean Meal

Kelp Meal

Neem Cake

Karanja Cake

Basalt

Gypsum

Oyster Shell Flour

Apply at a rate of 2 cups per cubic foot or approximately 1/4 cup per gallon of the mix when mixing soil.

Coot's Soil Recipe per cubic foot of soil (7.5 gallons):

1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss

1/3 Aeration Amendment (pumice, lava rock, perlite, vermiculite, rice hulls, etc..)

1/3 High Quality Compost and/or Earthworm Castings

2 cups of Coot's Nutrient and Mineral Pack above

2 cups of Malted Barley (blend 1 cup into a powder then mix into soil, the other cup will be top dressed at a rate of 1/4 cup of malted barley each week starting in week 3-4.

 

[AtomC]

good start would be imo:

Build-A-Flower Top Dress Kit

Build-A-Flower is available again!!. Malibu Compost was delayed in reaching us, causing production delays on the Build-A-Flower, so the recipe has changed. 2 Gallon Bags are delayed and will ship out within 2-3 weeks. Build A Flower Top Dress kit 3 Types of Compost + Added Minerals. Top dress...

buildasoil.com

BuildASoil Craft Blend - Nutrient Pack

BuildASoil Craft Blend started with a big workshop full of the best and cleanest soil amendments available. I quickly became spoiled and would use all of the BuildASoil ingredients together and in different combinations that aren't available here online. After discussing re-amending with a...

buildasoil.com

Living Organic Soil - Oly Mountain Compost

Living Organic Soil Ready To Plant Into The Moment It Arrives At Your Door!! Hand Made, Small Batch, Artisan Quality. SUMMER LEAD TIME: 14 days, Truckloads 6+ Weeks We Use approximately 7.5 Gallons per Cubic Foot ---> View the Soil Test Analysis here: Living Soil Test Results with Oly Mountain...

buildasoil.com

grokashi, barley straw, ro water, organic calmag supplement , mammoth p, recharge, #7 pots minimum (true 5 gal) min.. and keep a box of nematodes in the fridge for gnat control...if needed.

gl

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to give what I have a shot first, worst case I throw it outside with the pepper plants in spring if this first grow is a miserable failure. I did just up the volume I have going for 7 gal pots, looking like advice I can't ignore at this point, and still not as big as I'd like to go.


Hoping the neem meal and mosquito dunks keep gnats in check, but I've had nematodes in the back of my mind since I had some gnats get out of hand recently. Any thoughts on a specific organic cal mag supplement for the RO?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Any thoughts on a specific organic cal mag supplement for the RO?

 

[hecno]

Ok @AtomC I am a bit old fashioned , this is what I call dirt . [ soil ]

This soil has Soil from previous grows - Soil from under a Mango tree - Soil from under Tamarind tree - very old trees . Here is the tamarind tree , just up from it is the Mango tree , Now these trees have dropped leafs for a number of years and the leaf litter also has been composted a very long time . It is also full of worms ,

I also use very old Turkey nest . What we call a Bush Turkey , there nest can be t 10 years and older , they add to it every year . I only take the very bottom . Dried aged Horse manure . That is the foundation . It ends up being very organic so it will keep happy lots of worms , and I mean lots , I only use native worms not composting worms . To the foundation soil . I add Liquid seaweed - Powdered Bat Guano 12 P 29 Cal 10 Si I make my own powder in a coffee grinder - Molasses - Insect Fass - Fish Hydrolysate - Sea minerals - Fish pond water . Humic acid - Fulvic acid - Once I mix it all in I let it sit and balance its self out , as time goes by I do add stuff , mainly to feed the microbes . i top dress with old horse manure 2 or 3 times . worms love the stuff . I also rub it to make it a fine texture and i don't measure most of it , I just do what I think . Now that is all done I let it sit , ----- Time is the secret here . Min 3 months . i build my soil under cover and temps range from 18 c to 24 c . Temp is something to keep a eye on . For the health of the microbes . I used to use Perlite or pumice a while back , I don't need it now , The soil is heavy organic and retains water very well with out being water logged . I still use Bottle organic nutrients , but very very little . Cal/Mag I used 3 times the whole grow , just to top up . Most of the time , well all the time I let the plant tell me what she wants , As for worm castings it is already in the soil , My next goal is to make a soil blend to top up the pots , still got a bit of things to figure out yet , have done it for the first time with what I am growing at the moment . The plant in the photo is one I just harvested .

What got me to go down this track , is I live in the tropics with a rain forest right beside me with bloody big trees and nobody feeds them , So the question had to be asked , what is feeding them . Now I know . . I am no expert just a bloke that observes thing . any way this is my style of soil .