Lighting Kelvin talk

[BigSm0]

Just a quick question:. By cooler do you mean cooler K°, or cooler visually? Cooler by manufacturers terms is more of a bluish white and warmer is more red... but as amateur lighting students, we all know that this is actually backwards from the real K° scale.

Fun fact:. The K° value given off by any light emitting object is a direct example of what a piece of iron would look like at that temperature.

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Just when I thought I knew everything
That’s one of the “coolest thing” I have read yet.

 

[Dr.Bubbles]

I wouldn't call anyone "boring", it's the concept of "following the crowd" that is, not thinking out of the box and trying things.

I wouldn't be keen on the actual RGB's as you don't use the full output of the strip, each chip is really 3 and if only a third of the chip is running then that's a lot lost, and that's what I noticed with the blurple, it wasn't a single chip with a coating or whatever to give the colour but only the red or blue from an RGB that came on and, well, that was my mistake for not realising that which is why they won't be bought again. It's how we learn, by mistakes.

Move onto whites, however, and you have the full output of the led, not a third, so that's quite a difference. Throw in how you can fit 9.8m, 32 feet, of strip into a space around a square foot in size and you can see, with the right strip, just under 1200 Smd 5730 chips (for example) in that space. That's a LOT of lux and lumens by any standard, and if others are getting results from the various led light panels out there then the same or similar led on flexible strip should do the same, especially when you are throwing the chips in at such a density.

As I said elsewhere, the 3000k and blurple panel maxes out the lux meter on my phone so I won't get a true indication of things until my new light meter arrives. On that panel, visually to my old and knackered eyes, the blurple is swamped, you don't see it. If that had been a cool or daylight white, I would need sunglasses when I walked into that room. And, of course, flexible strip can be formed into other shapes than just "flat" which can be an advantage too.

As you say, we could find strip of the right colours, but at what cost? The cheap RGB is only good for decorative backlighting imo, so it's out, and getting strip specially made with the right colours will be the sort of expense that defeats the purpose of using cheaper strip to save money. So that's why I'm looking at two "white" colours, but finding what is the best combination is not easy.

As I say, I love experimenting, keeps my mind sharp. If I can't get the results, then I move onto more "traditional" LEDs, making a panel with cobs or just buying something like @BigSm0 autocobs. If it does work, then those with small stealth cabinets have another option.

We never find out anything by not trying. As we know led tech has come on leaps and bounds in recent times and is only likely to get even better on efficiency so, with the right strip and not some crap you get for 10 bucks in Walmart I think it should work.

Especially if, thanks to an idea I saw someone else have, I can figure out how to fit the headlamp glass from a truck, not a pickup but a semi tractor unit, to focus things more....

I think the strips are fine. Heard great things about the 561c Samsung Chips. I'm a Citizen guy. I have a blend of 90cri 3000k and 3500k. There is definitely a noticeable difference between the two. Together they provide a good balance. The 3500s IMO are the single source to get for a veg/bloom all in one. The 5700k/6500k are awesome for a dedicated starter box/room... but are pointless for flower. And if you try putting 1200 chips on a 1ft² hunk of metal, you are gonna be disappointed when it nukes plants with any kind of drive behind it. Sure, it will work.... but as soon as you start giving it some juice it's gonna be too much. Light burn with LEDs is very real. If you are looking to do some badass red and blue lights....I would either check out the Citizen Amber and Blue COBs or the CREE mono diodes. Far Red and UV are both available as well as good 3000k and 3500k. The Citi cobs are 36v 1212s. I haven't seen those here yet. 2200k on the amber...might be a good mix with some other temps. There is also the CLU058 series Citizens that include the 1825s and the monster 100v 3618s. The big COBs REALLY shine under higher power. Someone give that a go. Try a pair of 3000k 3618s Gen6 90 cri 100v cobs in series with a Mean Well 320h-c1400b Constant Current driver. That would be two 3000k FLOOD lights running at 140w a piece and those two would be compatible with each other and probably look like the sun. You might have to get a little creative with Heatsinks USA to keep em from going nuclear. Nothing crazy, just thought out well. My buddy got a badass heatsink for $20 from eBay. It would be PERFECT for one of those. Weighs like 10 pounds of real nice aluminum. And the reason that we are all jumping on the COB bandwagon is because they are the best available right now. I have faith in the other super high tech LED fields, like the strips and Quantum Boards, I just LOVE me some fackin KAAAHBS. It gets in your blood. There is something special about those little sunny side up eggs. And there is still PLENTY to explore with the COBs. From extremely efficient low voltage rigs (15-20w each cob) to more budget friendly high voltage rigs running 50v cobs at 120w a pop...or more. And then there is the bad boy Outlaw CLU058 3618 which can handle a ridiculous 4000ma + of current which is 4 amps. Plenty of room to do something different and find the setup that works for you. A word of advice from a KAAAHB guy: get yourself a handful of Bourns Linear Taper 100k ohm long shaft pots. Any rig that is fixed position on the lights like a frame is....will benefit from the ability to be able to turn em down when the plants shy away. Especially if you plan on going big or nuclear. Low voltage and even 50w seems to be okay.... but 1825s @ 130w a pop is on a whole different level. My buddy has two. They are ridiculously bright and throw a HUGE footprint. Stuffs to consider. Cheers DIY crew.

There called KAAHBS Joe

 

[Dr.Bubbles]

Citizen 1212 Amber 2200k
Citizen 1212 Blue
CREE XP-G mono 3000k
CREE CUSTOM 3-up stars with your choice of any combo of 3 XP-E or XP-G series. Like IR and UV or whatever. Cool shit is here. Better shit is coming. It's a great time to be a farmer and a guitar player right now.

There called KAAHBS Joe

 

[thetreeman]

Im waiting to try rigid strips if/when they come out with them in 90cri... they look really nice and cooling is less of an issue than with cobs, but Im not super on board with a spectrum that maxes right around 600 on the red side...

 

[Banjacked]

I think the strips are fine. Heard great things about the 561c Samsung Chips. I'm a Citizen guy. I have a blend of 90cri 3000k and 3500k. There is definitely a noticeable difference between the two. Together they provide a good balance. The 3500s IMO are the single source to get for a veg/bloom all in one. The 5700k/6500k are awesome for a dedicated starter box/room... but are pointless for flower. And if you try putting 1200 chips on a 1ft² hunk of metal, you are gonna be disappointed when it nukes plants with any kind of drive behind it. Sure, it will work.... but as soon as you start giving it some juice it's gonna be too much. Light burn with LEDs is very real. If you are looking to do some badass red and blue lights....I would either check out the Citizen Amber and Blue COBs or the CREE mono diodes. Far Red and UV are both available as well as good 3000k and 3500k. The Citi cobs are 36v 1212s. I haven't seen those here yet. 2200k on the amber...might be a good mix with some other temps. There is also the CLU058 series Citizens that include the 1825s and the monster 100v 3618s. The big COBs REALLY shine under higher power. Someone give that a go. Try a pair of 3000k 3618s Gen6 90 cri 100v cobs in series with a Mean Well 320h-c1400b Constant Current driver. That would be two 3000k FLOOD lights running at 140w a piece and those two would be compatible with each other and probably look like the sun. You might have to get a little creative with Heatsinks USA to keep em from going nuclear. Nothing crazy, just thought out well. My buddy got a badass heatsink for $20 from eBay. It would be PERFECT for one of those. Weighs like 10 pounds of real nice aluminum. And the reason that we are all jumping on the COB bandwagon is because they are the best available right now. I have faith in the other super high tech LED fields, like the strips and Quantum Boards, I just LOVE me some fackin KAAAHBS. It gets in your blood. There is something special about those little sunny side up eggs. And there is still PLENTY to explore with the COBs. From extremely efficient low voltage rigs (15-20w each cob) to more budget friendly high voltage rigs running 50v cobs at 120w a pop...or more. And then there is the bad boy Outlaw CLU058 3618 which can handle a ridiculous 4000ma + of current which is 4 amps. Plenty of room to do something different and find the setup that works for you. A word of advice from a KAAAHB guy: get yourself a handful of Bourns Linear Taper 100k ohm long shaft pots. Any rig that is fixed position on the lights like a frame is....will benefit from the ability to be able to turn em down when the plants shy away. Especially if you plan on going big or nuclear. Low voltage and even 50w seems to be okay.... but 1825s @ 130w a pop is on a whole different level. My buddy has two. They are ridiculously bright and throw a HUGE footprint. Stuffs to consider. Cheers DIY crew.

There called KAAHBS Joe

Well, I have 32 feet of strip, half 3000K and half blurple, running right now as we speak. It's near as damn it 600 3000K SMD5730 (120 Led per metre) and 300 Blurple SMD5050 (60 Led per meter) and there's no issues with burn at this time. Of course, I'm being VERY careful with the height as I can show you a nice picture of what happens to a leaf that touches a 5050 blurple, you get a wonderful white spot which is not exactly something that is good for the plant. As I say, radiated heat towards the plant is not high at all, not when mounted in 28 rows of 13-and-a-bollock-hair inches in length giving you around 11 inches in width, or 1.05 sq. ft of LED strip, on what used to be a side panel from a PC. You can easily touch the LED's themselves and my calibrated thermometer is reading 77°F at the highest point of the plant. Touch the back of the plate, and, well, you don't be keeping your fingers there for long, shall we say. So that's working for heat dissipation, but, as you say "LED burn" is an issue that has to be monitored and my in built paranoia means that although I don't have the tape measure out to check the distance I am keeping a VERY close eye on distance so things don't get too close. I think it was @BigSm0 who pointed me to a link elsewhere showing what can happen, and apart from one accident with my second plant that "warning" is being well and truly heeded as I have slightly screwed up in that respect already.

When it comes to driving the strip, I stick to Constant Voltage instead of Constant Current simply because that's what I know and can rig things up without really having to think too much after installing christ knows how much strip in a previous job. CC is going to be better than CV, I accept that as you're driving things harder, but, as I say, right now I'm taking the learning curve slowly and sticking with what I know instead of making things over-complicated as I know that will result in failure as it's likely that I'll think one thing is the problem when the reality is that it will be something else I've done. Remove the variables like that, less chance of buggering everything up completely.

At this moment, dimmers aren't needed as, well, this is a proper Heath Robinson setup with no frame. The panel is held up with some decent Sisal string looped over the exhaust pipe from my hot water boiler and tied off so it can easily be raised or lowered as necessary. Rough as boar's crap, but it works as the heat given off isn't enough to burn the string, and the edges of the plate have had some protection fitted to prevent it cutting into the string (that was primarily done to stop it cutting into me when manhandling things, so a win-win there). Of course, I'm keeping an eye on that as well as the last thing needed is things coming loose and over 140W of LED strip ending up sitting on something that is showing signs of some nice flowers appearing.

Give me time, and I've no doubt that I'll graduate to a Cob or two (Scots don't do american accents well, I'll stick to Cob and not Kaahb if it's ok with you) and use the panels for vegging or supplementary lighting. Hell, the strips can be taken of the panels and reused in another way if I feel like it, the bottom line is that they won't be wasted. I'm not interested in big plantations, just a plant or two at a time as PC Plod here won't bother me at all if I'm growing that for personal use. Stick a tent in a room with 10 plants in it, I could end up being very careful about how I pick up the soap, shall we say, so until this backwards little country brings itself into the 21st century I'm taking it easy. Also, trying to do any more plants than I'm doing now is only going to result in everything going pear-shaped, that is a given and that's too much to waste until I get a system going.

The one thing I can guarantee is that if I do move to cobs then these "driverless" ones will never be used. I see these things and I think of how much heat will need to be moved as first you're dropping the mains voltage, then you're rectifying it, and then powering the cob. That's a lot of heat that has to go somewhere, never mind the potential for a VERY big bang and bright flash when something goes wrong with the internals and the 230vac supply here goes where it shouldn't. I don't trust them things.

But cheers for the info, my options have been narrowed down quite a bit and that makes future planning easier.

 

[orrganic]

Citizen 1212 Amber 2200k
Citizen 1212 Blue
CREE XP-G mono 3000k
CREE CUSTOM 3-up stars with your choice of any combo of 3 XP-E or XP-G series. Like IR and UV or whatever. Cool shit is here. Better shit is coming. It's a great time to be a farmer and a guitar player right now.

There called KAAHBS Joe

Mounting any combo of the smaller diodes on the aluminium frame of a cob kit to boost peaks in the required sprectrum.. @bigsmo @Dr.Bubbles would this be worth the effort?

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[Dr.Bubbles]

Look at Growmau5's YouTube builds. Dude builds lights that look like they came off a high end assembly line. Gorgeous and clean. He is a COB and QB guy, but loves adding some IR/Far Red "bloom initiator" mono diodes of the 3-5w variety. Like Cree. Keep in mind, you will most likely need a mini driver to run these, and you better be good with a soldering gun or spend some dollars on the 1-up or 3-up stars. Sounds like something from a 90s video game...lol. I am loving me some KAHBS, but I surely think that the most badass light ever would be a combo of COBs, strips, and SMDs. Main lighting would be COBs at 3000k or 3500k. Strip lighting as vertical for penetration as well as some IR or Far Red diodes scattered throughout the light canopy. People swear by the fluorescent IR tubes as well.....I personally have no experience with them or IR LEDs so I am just thinking out loud here technically....lol....whatever u do, keep an eye on IR, as I believe it can harm the plant, and also I think it only runs an hour or two a day. Don't quote me on that though. According to people who went to college for plants (not me)... Marihuana produces THC as a "sunscreen" to protect against Infrared Radiation damage. If that's the case, make em have to slather that shit on thick like your mom used to do when u went to the beach.

That's GWK from 'Phisto with zero IR....just 3000 and 3500k KAAHB soup...taken today

There called KAAHBS Joe

 

[DABaracuss]

Look at Growmau5's YouTube builds. Dude builds lights that look like they came off a high end assembly line. Gorgeous and clean. He is a COB and QB guy, but loves adding some IR/Far Red "bloom initiator" mono diodes of the 3-5w variety. Like Cree. Keep in mind, you will most likely need a mini driver to run these, and you better be good with a soldering gun or spend some dollars on the 1-up or 3-up stars. Sounds like something from a 90s video game...lol. I am loving me some KAHBS, but I surely think that the most badass light ever would be a combo of COBs, strips, and SMDs. Main lighting would be COBs at 3000k or 3500k. Strip lighting as vertical for penetration as well as some IR or Far Red diodes scattered throughout the light canopy. People swear by the fluorescent IR tubes as well.....I personally have no experience with them or IR LEDs so I am just thinking out loud here technically....lol....whatever u do, keep an eye on IR, as I believe it can harm the plant, and also I think it only runs an hour or two a day. Don't quote me on that though. According to people who went to college for plants (not me)... Marihuana produces THC as a "sunscreen" to protect against Infrared Radiation damage. If that's the case, make em have to slather that shit on thick like your mom used to do when u went to the beach.

That's GWK from 'Phisto with zero IR....just 3000 and 3500k KAAHB soup...taken today

There called KAAHBS Joe

You do want some ir and far red for the best terp and Rez profile. My gn first gen have IR and make them frosty.

 

[Dr.Bubbles]

What's GN?

There called KAAHBS Joe

 

[DABaracuss]

What's GN?

There called KAAHBS Joe

Grow northern led.You get great results at the 825 range I think it is..brings out the thc raise it 30/45 %