Live Stoner Chat Killing your Auto at harvest....

[KushNFT]

Hey there Archie

By annual, i mean, it lives for a year or less.
What really interests me, is the potential for an auto flowering plant
to have more longevity than that. ie. for it to survive multiple summers and multiple winters.
It seems to me that this must be theoretically possible,
since i has one parent that has 'multi-year' longevity.

But i guess that most of us don't know whether autos are multi-annual or not
because we harvest them in their prime. We need to harvest them less severely
and allow them to survive the harvest and then wait and watch to see what happens
in the months and years head. Because:

(a) Perhaps ... some autos are perpetually flowering
(eg: give sufficient light and warmth and nutrients, maybe they just go on and on flowering)

(b) If not perpetually flowering, perhaps these plants, go into a kind of vegetative
dormancy, until the next year, during which time, they build up more and more root
stock and then... voila... a much bigger yield in year [HASHTAG]#2[/HASHTAG] then in year#1, and then
perhaps a bigger yield in year [HASHTAG]#3[/HASHTAG] than in year [HASHTAG]#2[/HASHTAG] .. and so on.

So it seems to me that those are two great reasons to be gentle during
harvest time and to study your girls carefully during the subsequent weeks,
months and years.

There's also potential here for a Low Stress approach to harvesting. It must be stressful
for the plant to have all it's flowers cut off in one go. Remember it _is_ possible to
do LST on autos. Perhaps by developing a multi-cola canopy, we can then conduct
a harvest over 4 weeks, pruning small quantities of bud every 3 or 4 days. Perhaps
doing a low stress harvest, encourages the plant to generate new bud and simply
keep going with the flowering.

These are interesting perspectives, no ?

Have a nice day, and be happy

cryptolab

Unless you get something like 50% more bud by taking 4 weeks to harvest I reckon it would be more productive to be 4 weeks into your next grow.

 

[dankstyle J]

Well done. You anticipated my Ruderalis question.
Are you sure Ruderalis is an annual ?
You're not just assuming that, right ?

However, perhaps the genes for auto flowering, aren't the same as
the genes for dropping dead in the first year.
Cannabis plants are usually not annuals.
If you mix an annual with a non-annual... how long will the plant live ?
I guess the answer depends on which versions of which genes have
been inherited by the hybrid. I presume it must be possible to select
hybrids that are both (a) auto flowering (b) relatively long lived.
Yes, these are definitely interesting questions.

No assumptions friend but I have grown quite a few autos after harvest I put them outside an many live to fill out the under developed flowers but they never create new growth,when I do the same thing with a photo period given enough light she will reveg ,this is not true with autos ,I have never grown an super auto so I don't have any experience on them reveggin .

 

[McDee]

Hey there Archie

By annual, i mean, it lives for a year or less.
What really interests me, is the potential for an auto flowering plant
to have more longevity than that. ie. for it to survive multiple summers and multiple winters.
It seems to me that this must be theoretically possible,
since i has one parent that has 'multi-year' longevity.

But i guess that most of us don't know whether autos are multi-annual or not
because we harvest them in their prime. We need to harvest them less severely
and allow them to survive the harvest and then wait and watch to see what happens
in the months and years head. Because:

(a) Perhaps ... some autos are perpetually flowering
(eg: give sufficient light and warmth and nutrients, maybe they just go on and on flowering)

(b) If not perpetually flowering, perhaps these plants, go into a kind of vegetative
dormancy, until the next year, during which time, they build up more and more root
stock and then... voila... a much bigger yield in year [HASHTAG]#2[/HASHTAG] then in year#1, and then
perhaps a bigger yield in year [HASHTAG]#3[/HASHTAG] than in year [HASHTAG]#2[/HASHTAG] .. and so on.

So it seems to me that those are two great reasons to be gentle during
harvest time and to study your girls carefully during the subsequent weeks,
months and years.

There's also potential here for a Low Stress approach to harvesting. It must be stressful
for the plant to have all it's flowers cut off in one go. Remember it _is_ possible to
do LST on autos. Perhaps by developing a multi-cola canopy, we can then conduct
a harvest over 4 weeks, pruning small quantities of bud every 3 or 4 days. Perhaps
doing a low stress harvest, encourages the plant to generate new bud and simply
keep going with the flowering.

These are interesting perspectives, no ?

Have a nice day, and be happy

cryptolab

We can all tell you the same thing 5 different ways bud, sounds like you don't like the answers. If you think you can regenerate an auto, then by all means do so. I do not believe it will work (I know it won't lol), but give it a shot and report back with your findings. Sounds like you want it to be true so bad you can taste it. It would be nice if we could. Part of the fun is trying new stuff, get in that lab and see what you come up with. Good luck, I hope you prove us all wrong!

 

[cryptolab]

We can all tell you the same thing 5 different ways bud, sounds like you don't like the answers. If you think you can regenerate an auto, then by all means do so. I do not believe it will work (I know it won't lol), but give it a shot and report back with your findings. Sounds like you want it to be true so bad you can taste it. It would be nice if we could. Part of the fun is trying new stuff, get in that lab and see what you come up with. Good luck, I hope you prove us all wrong!

I don't care what you believe... Mcdee... I wasn't taking to you, or any of the other resident trolls here.

Developing a perpetually flowering, long-lived auto strain, would be a very profitable scenario
for the discoverer(s) of the first examples of such plants.

The seeds from such a strain would fetch high prices and, from a grower's perspective,
would immediately cut down on the effort and resources needed to maintain one's own weed supply.

Perhaps you recognise this and wish to dissuade others from looking for such a strain ?
I strongly suspect that many such strains are out there, just waiting to be discovered, and
brought to market, for the benefit of the larger community, of recreational and medical users.

All you need to do, is harvest only the flowers and allow your auto to survive the harvest.
Question: How will it behave next ?
(a) will it start to generate new flowers ?
(b) will it survive beyond 12 months ?

If you get a YES answer to (a) you're already onto a winning strain.
If you get a YES answer to (a) and (b) you've hit the jackpot... everyone will want those seeds.

These strains _are_ out there. We just need to look for them, and we _will_ find them.
The finders of these strains will enrich themselves, and the community.

 

[nizmoKush]

Not to be rude, but you ask for an opinion on that subject and we let you know what has been tried and tested. Auto flowers don't and can't re-veg and many growers here can vouch for that.

As for trolls this is the only forum that you can say they are very very few trolls.

But if you think you can re-veg and auto go ahead and try and come back with some results and happy growing man.

 

[McDee]

I don't care what you believe... Mcdee... I wasn't taking to you, or any of the other resident trolls here.

Developing a perpetually flowering, long-lived auto strain, would be a very profitable scenario
for the discoverer(s) of the first examples of such plants.

The seeds from such a strain would fetch high prices and, from a grower's perspective,
would immediately cut down on the effort and resources needed to maintain one's own weed supply.

Perhaps you recognise this and wish to dissuade others from looking for such a strain ?
I strongly suspect that many such strains are out there, just waiting to be discovered, and
brought to market, for the benefit of the larger community, of recreational and medical users.

All you need to do, is harvest only the flowers and allow your auto to survive the harvest.
Question: How will it behave next ?
(a) will it start to generate new flowers ?
(b) will it survive beyond 12 months ?

If you get a YES answer to (a) you're already onto a winning strain.
If you get a YES answer to (a) and (b) you've hit the jackpot... everyone will want those seeds.

These strains _are_ out there. We just need to look for them, and we _will_ find them.
The finders of these strains will enrich themselves, and the community.

@nizmoKush nailed it! I believe you posted your question in love stoner chat, not to anyone specific correct? So if you don't care what others believe then why do you ask the question? Did you read my post, where was I a troll? I believe I recommend that you try it and show us. I have a cousin that will ask a question until he gets the answer he wanted, no matter if its wrong. I was trying to be positive and encourage you to give it a shot, but instead you call me a troll lol. That's funny, that's rich. Sounds like you think you know more than all of the auto breeders out there. If you wanted a plant you can reveg then just grow a photo. Well you go be rich and famous inventing that uber auto seed that's waiting for you to find it. I'll take a 5 pak. Peace!

 

[Banjacked]

On the wikipedia page on Autoflowering plants i found these words:

Quote:

SuperAutos
A SuperAuto (sometimes referred to as amazonian autos) starts flowering automatically only after a much longer vegetative period between 28/32 days most of the time. Just like other autoflowers changing the lighting schedule does not affect the flowering cycle of these strains. It is not unusual for SuperAutos to get over five feet tall with some becoming eight feet high.

The average life span of a SuperAuto is 90 to 110 days from seed as opposed to the shorter 55–85 days with most common autoflowers. The added advantage of the longer life span is that slow maturing sativa phenotype have more time to develop and larger yields can be obtaine
​

But.... i don't believe it. I think there _must_ be some proportion of hybrids of annual and non-annual parents that are
not annuals. They must be longer lived like their longer lived parent.
So some auto-flowering plants must live for, say, 3, 5 or 10 years etc.
For these individuals it's a very interesting question: How is their flowering regulated.
Perhaps some of them are perpetually flowering.
Wouldn't that be such a convenient behaviour pattern ?

We need practical examples. We need experiments.
We need members here willing to trim the flowers but not the leaves of their Autos.
We need owners willing to allow their autos to survive the harvest.
We might be about to make some wonderful discoveries.

No idea about "super autos", but I can only go by what I've seen which has me asking questions.

Basically, as said elsewhere, my first grow, a NL auto according to the pack the seed was in, went a bit sideways thanks to me going into hospital BUT she survived and flowered. These flowers have been turning to bud at different rates, which is nothing unusual as has been said here so no worries there. But I have NEW flowers coming out, not male ones a there are some nice pistils sprouting out of the flowers, but I thought that didn't happen with autos at the stage it was at.

Ok, the bugger is the best part of a metre tall thanks to the time I couldn't keep a check on it, and during that time it went a bit "dry" and it was like it went into some sort of "survival mode" thanks to lack of watering/feeding, but the big leaves are showing no signs whatsoever of dying off. So I'm going to keep it going, chopping off only the buds that are ready and just watching to see what happens as there could be a couple of months more "life" in the plant than I expected as more flowers keep sprouting out.

This is a learning curve for me, she's not been under any "special" grow lights and gets extra feeding every now and then but at this time, 4 months on, it looks like she'll just keep going for a while yet so I'm VERY interested in what the end result will be.

Will keep you all updated on what happens, but to say it's "interesting" is a bit of an understatement as I honestly did not think that such a thing would happen so it means I may well have been rather lucky with the seed and how the plant behaves....

 

[cryptolab]

No idea about "super autos", but I can only go by what I've seen which has me asking questions.

Basically, as said elsewhere, my first grow, a NL auto according to the pack the seed was in, went a bit sideways thanks to me going into hospital BUT she survived and flowered. These flowers have been turning to bud at different rates, which is nothing unusual as has been said here so no worries there. But I have NEW flowers coming out, not male ones a there are some nice pistils sprouting out of the flowers, but I thought that didn't happen with autos at the stage it was at.

Ok, the bugger is the best part of a metre tall thanks to the time I couldn't keep a check on it, and during that time it went a bit "dry" and it was like it went into some sort of "survival mode" thanks to lack of watering/feeding, but the big leaves are showing no signs whatsoever of dying off. So I'm going to keep it going, chopping off only the buds that are ready and just watching to see what happens as there could be a couple of months more "life" in the plant than I expected as more flowers keep sprouting out.

This is a learning curve for me, she's not been under any "special" grow lights and gets extra feeding every now and then but at this time, 4 months on, it looks like she'll just keep going for a while yet so I'm VERY interested in what the end result will be.

Will keep you all updated on what happens, but to say it's "interesting" is a bit of an understatement as I honestly did not think that such a thing would happen so it means I may well have been rather lucky with the seed and how the plant behaves....

Hi Banjacked,

A+ Excellent post.

I hope you're much improved after your stay in hospital.

Seriously, if you can self-pollinate some of those flowers, and collect the seeds,
perhaps it will be possible for you to start a perpetually flowering strain.
You will find that many of growers will be interested in those seeds.
(Including myself, of-course )

Your developed new strain could be worth a lot of money to you in the future.
A perpetually flowering auto, would be perfect for lots of medical users/growers,
since it would require a minimum in terms of care and attention.

I imagine a time when everyone's grandmother has a perpetually flowering
cannabis plant, or two, basking in the sunshine through the dining room window.

Yes, please keep us in updated with your progress with this. I would be very interested
to see how your NL auto progresses. And naturally, i wish you every success
with it. If you decide to start a grow journal, on some website, somewhere, please
feel free to invite me as a reader.

best wishes

cryptolab

 

[cryptolab]

Not to be rude, but you ask for an opinion on that subject and we let you know what has been tried and tested. Auto flowers don't and can't re-veg and many growers here can vouch for that.

As for trolls this is the only forum that you can say they are very very few trolls.

But if you think you can re-veg and auto go ahead and try and come back with some results and happy growing man.

Hi nizmoKush,

Some autos, perhaps most autos, _must_ carry the genes necessary for multi-year longevity
since, even for F1 auto hybrids, one parent is short lived and one parent is long lived.
So we might expect 50% of the seeds from an F1, Ruderalis X (sativa/indica) hybrid to
exhibit. That's based on a naive probabilistic distribution of the genes. In practice we might
see 25% of plants have a Ruderalis lifespan, 50% of plants have an intermediate lifespan, say 5 years,
and 25% have a lifespan of, say, 10 years. In that scenario 75% of autos have a multi-year life-span.

But consider that many autos are crossed to another long lived sativa or indica in the F2 generation.
And perhaps another indica/sativa cross in the F3 generation. Probably, the only trait of interest
to the commercial breeders is the auto-flowering trait. With each new generation that an auto
is crossed with a sativa or indica, multiplies the chances that seeds of this cross, will have multi-year
longevity.

Most auto growers have never considered the issue of plant longevity.
Usually, they destroy the plant at the first harvest, which prevents any observation of the plant's
longer term flowering potential.
Very few have taken the time and effort to:
(a) only harvest the bud, and not the plant leaves, and hence allow the plant to survive the harvest.
(b) make a special study of the plant's behaviour in terms of it's longevity and flowering behaviour.

If you have an auto, that lives, say, 5 years. What are it's flowering patterns going to be ?
Maybe it will it be perpetually flowering ?
Will it somehow revert to a photosensitive flowering behaviour
(presumably genes inherited from one of it's long-lived ancestors)

We already have famous examples of perpetually flowering sativa plants on the Island of Reunion.
And perhaps it would be a successful and profitable project to cross Ruderalis with one of the
perpetual weed strains from Reunion.
See the Strain Hunters report on this one:
http://forums.strainhunters.com/index.html/articles/landraces/reunion-island-the-perpetual-weed-r17/

I feel it's important that growers consider the potential for long lived and perpetual flowering
auto strains. Such plants would require much less in terms of time, attention and resources.
The development and distribution of these strains would be a huge benefit to many older people
and many people with medical issues.

We're not here long. We should try to do some good in the world.

best wishes

cryptolab

 

[Banjacked]

Hi Banjacked,

A+ Excellent post.

I hope you're much improved after your stay in hospital.

Seriously, if you can self-pollinate some of those flowers, and collect the seeds,
perhaps it will be possible for you to start a perpetually flowering strain.
You will find that many of growers will be interested in those seeds.
(Including myself, of-course )

Your developed new strain could be worth a lot of money to you in the future.
A perpetually flowering auto, would be perfect for lots of medical users/growers,
since it would require a minimum in terms of care and attention.

I imagine a time when everyone's grandmother has a perpetually flowering
cannabis plant, or two, basking in the sunshine through the dining room window.

Yes, please keep us in updated with your progress with this. I would be very interested
to see how your NL auto progresses. And naturally, i wish you every success
with it. If you decide to start a grow journal, on some website, somewhere, please
feel free to invite me as a reader.

best wishes

cryptolab

The hospital stay was nothing, only nearly lost a foot because it blew up like a balloon a week before I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes (thought I dodged that hereditary bullet, I was wrong) but the BFO hole that was left in my foot is as good as healed so now it's just the "normal" aches and pains to worry about. Don't worry, not going to post pics of that wound but let's just say that if I saw steak that colour in the shops I would be on it like a rat up a drainpipe..

Am definitely keeping an eye on the new growth budding, to see if any male bits appear, there's plenty pics online to see what they look like, but so far I see nothing but female parts with pistils popping up all over the lower parts. I see SOME leaves starting to wilt now, but only the occasional leaf (perfectly normal with any plant), but the plant is still drinking like hell so I've gone back to giving it some feed every couple of days instead of just water and, well, just let it go on and see what happens as there is definitely new growth, leaves as well, on the lower parts of the plant. It's tempting to snip some buts off just to see if they take and grow separately, but I don't want to put the plant through any more than it's been through already.

Maybe I did something, maybe it's just a freak of genetics, but it definitely seems strange as apart from the 9 days when the missus did her best but not enough regarding watering, etc, and then moving it away from the window into a more "controlled environment" I can't think of anything that is "abnormal" that I did. PH is constantly checked, it's in good compost so less "added" feed than recommended on the pack has been used, but it certainly has new flowers and leaves popping up all over the place lower down which has me confused.

Time is going to tell and she has all the time in the world. Who knows, she'll maybe pop up some seeds naturally as, well, we all know that the only aim of any plant is to survive to propagate it's species so it is possible that she will create more feminised seeds on her own as, according to what I have been seeing, that can happen. I sure won't be unhappy if I get "free seeds" as long as they are viable!!