Indoor LED advice sought

[JM]

hey I know that was a hair off topic... but it really was an excellent hash-out discussion of wattages vs actual power vs growin ability.... I'd love to see this is a seperate discussion thread...

auto-p... I must agree... its kinda of a deceptive way of doing it... but once we understand whats what... it really doesnt matter... I've measure the blackstar 240's at 121 watts @ 117 VAC Sine wave (o-scoped) grid power (we have decent stable grid juice here usually...)

so i basically 1/2 any models power consumption claim in my calculations.... if anything... it increases safety for people who dont understand power load... they think they are running twice the juice! lol



chester... I wish you well in your new grow!

 

[TaNg]

Grownorthern lights are assembled in France....just wanted to throw that out there. And hay Chester.

 

[Chester]

LEDs are definitely a mystery to most of us. I've always been real happy with CFLs but it was time for an upgrade. I'll post before and after photos of the stunted plants and the effect of LEDs ... I know I'm looking forward to seeing the change.

Thanks again for the input ...

 

[Chester]

All seeds popped 6/21 ... 25 days ago ...

Northern Lights
photosensitive ...
View attachment 105179

Blue Mystic auto ...
View attachment 105180

Blue Mystic auto ...
View attachment 105183

The Blue Mystic autos will be joinied by three more that are also 25 days old and will be under LEDs by Tuesday afternoon. The NL should be getting it's LED by the end of the week. Tiny as they all are, they have done real well over the past couple days. The NL is shown next to a popsicle stick and the Blue Mystic is next to a 16 oz cup. These plants are suffering from too much heat (90+) and my reflector was not reflecting as it should have been. These plants are being moved to an air conditioned environment that should run a consistent 78-80 degrees.

 

[cres]

It's illegal to say: "240W fixture" when the fixture actually only uses 140W.

I'd be wary of any company that lies in it's advertising. This is relevant to the thread, and to the poster's question.

You might like their product. But that doesn't change the fact that they are being deceptive about it.

Thats why I wont buy a LED the info is deceptive and bulbs not replaceable.. I hate being lied to and most manufactures wont even tell you the true draw...some do but even those are shady IMO... And it all reeks of selling to stupid potheads.. I know 2 people who bought LEDs 2-3 years ago... there in the trash can now. Still work but worthless for growing as the light has degraded somehow. The claims of 50,000 hrs...maybe the bulbs still work at 50,000 hrs but can the plant still use the light for photosynthesis?

If your going to buy an LED then do your homework and if you think your going to get 5-10years from it reliably serving you...I will bet against you. Thats just my opinion. I'm not ready to gamble just yet, although I like all I read on the heat, and economy of the lights.. But reliability and longevity are way more important to me.
I got HPS ballasts that are 20 years old... toss a new bulb in it and good to go.

 

[Chester]

I've done a few grows of Onyx. It generally get about 18 - 22" high, but like most all auto strains, isn't 100% stable. There are also bush phenos that will get bigger, as well as runts that won't get over 12 or 14" tall.

Thanks for the info Muddy ... 18-22" works for me ...

 

[TaNg]

Grownorthern lights are assembled in France....just wanted to throw that out there. And hay Chester.

Wrong again TaNg lol I emailed the guys at Grownorthern earlier and asked a couple of the questions raised in this thread and I just got this reply.


1.The new upgrade modules we will be releasing are assembled in France and the UK but the Ballast is assembled in China. Location of LED production*doesn't*matter*as long*as the designs and components used are of a good standard, Phillips proved this manufacturing the best diffused*LED's*in the world in China.*

2.The reason max parts change from actual consumption is because of typical temperature coefficient vs forwarded voltage. As the ambient temperature increases so does the forward voltage. Products should show there max power consumption and also a average draw at 25 degrees*Celsius. For example our modular 4 unit has a max power consumption of 180w but at an average ambient temperature of 25C it will draw around 120w.

 

[Chester]

Good Info J TaNg ...

 

[auto-p]

Wrong again TaNg lol I emailed the guys at Grownorthern earlier and asked a couple of the questions raised in this thread and I just got this reply.


1.The new upgrade modules we will be releasing are assembled in France and the UK but the Ballast is assembled in China. Location of LED production*doesn't*matter*as long*as the designs and components used are of a good standard, Phillips proved this manufacturing the best diffused*LED's*in the world in China.*

2.The reason max parts change from actual consumption is because of typical temperature coefficient vs forwarded voltage. As the ambient temperature increases so does the forward voltage. Products should show there max power consumption and also a average draw at 25 degrees*Celsius. For example our modular 4 unit has a max power consumption of 180w but at an average ambient temperature of 25C it will draw around 120w.

#2 is inaccurate. Yes, forward voltage drop does increase, and LED ballasts are constant current. But NO LED increases forward voltage by 50% from ambient temp to operating temp.

Forward voltage increases by less than 10% typical from ambient to 70C (maximum operating temp of most LEDs)


So, I'd need a better answer than that. If the lamp drew 165w cold, and 180w at temp, that would be acceptable,

 

[auto-p]

Maybe they are running the LEDs way too hot. But that would seriously compromise the lifetime of the LEDs.

I just tried something. The fixture my company makes is rated at 334W, but has 504W worth of LEDs in the fixture. Cold, it draws 316W, and at full operating temp (55C die temp) the fixture draw 341W. Our packaging and labeling says 334W.
If we, (a reputable firm) tried to sell it as a 500W fixture, we would be sued by all our competitors the very next day.

That's an accurate rating.