Lighting Led wave length info

namvet25

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[h=1]The Truth about Wavelengths[/h] Traditionally, successful indoor hydroponic lighting solutions employed powerful High Intensity Discharge (HID) lights in order to simulate the intensity and required wavelengths for Photosynthesis. It is an adequate solution but a very inefficient one. Even the highest quality High Pressure Sodium bulb produces only 30% of usable wavelengths for photosynthesis, with 70% of the light completely wasted. This loss can be measured by specialty scientific instruments and advanced light spectrum analysis devices. Traditional HID lighting systems consume more power, produce an inefficient spectrum, and produce significant heat. These factors contribute to a very high operational cost and the need to address cooling solutions which can come with additional energy requirements of their own.
LEDs have existed for almost 50 years, but until recently, they lacked the light output and energy efficiency necessary to make them a viable alternative to traditional lighting solutions. Since 2008 the lumen output per watt of LEDs has doubled, and the best LEDs are now on par with HID lights in terms of lumens/watt with one exception, they are far more efficient.
Based on research done by scientists at Cornell University and other horticultural centers, Lighthouse Hydro has developed LED lighting products that optimize the usable light wavelengths absorbed by your plants. Neither HPS nor MH bulbs provide significant light output below the 580nm wavelength. This means that one of the largest portions of the light spectrum used by plants (420-455nm) is not supplied by either HID product. Additionally, the majority of HID output is in the green-yellow spectrum which is not only reflected by plants but also barely used in Photosynthetic reactions. The most important wavelengths for plant growth and flowering is found at the 420nm, 450nm, 630nm, and 660nm wavelengths. Red is more important for flowering and yields, and blue more important for node intervals & faster growth and absorption. We deliver these wavelengths, scientifically balanced for maximum efficiency. What once was 70% of light wasted is now light harvested. Lighthouse Hydro LEDs use a optimized blend of individual 60 degree, 90 degree, and 120 degree LED chips. In the configuration Lighthouse Hydro has designed, light coverage for the grow area is maximized and light penetration is increased when compared to lights using a single spread angle LED light.
eye-hortilux-spectrum-distribution.jpg
Not all light is created equally. And neither are LED lights! At least not as far as plants are concerned. HPS, MH and T5 bulbs produce a spectrum that is fixed and based on the filament or phosphors in the bulb. Even the industry's best bulbs are only 32% efficient.
The above graph is the output of one of the leading HPS bulbs in the market. As you can see the majority of light emitted is in the yellow and green spectrum. These colors are NOT used by plants (hence the reason the leaves are colored green, they reflect it!)

[h=1]Take a look at the graph below, this is the spectrum that the plants actually USE!
This is commonly referred to as the "Photosynthetic Action Spectrum".
rate-of-synthesis-graph.jpg

estimated-light-absorptio-rate-of-chlorophyl.jpg

Lighthouse Hydro UV LED lights use a specific ratio of individual LEDs to maximize the vegetative growth and flowering production of your plants. With a greater percentage of individual LEDs in the red spectrum, and the added Ultraviolet spectrum to signal day and night light cycles that naturally occur in nature, use of the UV light will result in faster flowering times and greater yield for your plants.
The graphs speak for themselves. Neither HPS nor MH provide much lumen output under 580nm. This means that the largest portion of lights used by plants 420nm-455nm is not supplied by either light solution. The peak lumen output is 580nm, 595nm & 615nm. As you can see, that translates into a loss of about 70% efficiency when overlaid with the light used by growing plants. Thus, a 40,000 400W HPS bulb translates into 12000 actual usable lumens. These charts are available from the HID bulb manufacturers and widely distributed, touting that they are closest to the natural light output of the sun. The most important thing is, plant's don't use all the light from the sun, they flourish when very specifically tailored wavelengths are used.
The final analysis is that the most successful growth is found at 420nm, 450nm, 630nm and 660nm wavelengths. Red is slightly more important for flowering but blue produces faster growth and absorption. It is also important for plants to get more 630nm-660nm wavelengths because it is reported that those wavelengths determine leaf diameter. Larger leaves will make a larger plant. And who doesn't
[/h]
 
Hi,

as this is copy pasted and isnt by chance your opinion, do you mind if I highlight the "misinformation" (lies is such a strong word) in this by providing some scientific sources?
Just dont want your thread to get closed too and posts deleted just for exposing some of the bad practices in conjunction with led panel selling...

edit:
NVM, just have a look at this:
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full.pdf+html
Just by reading the headline of that oxford-journal paper it should become obvious that there must be something wrong with the diagrams and text provided by that seller....(that is putting it kindly)
 
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Hi,

as this is copy pasted and isnt by chance your opinion, do you mind if I highlight the "misinformation" (lies is such a strong word) in this by providing some scientific sources?
Just dont want your thread to get closed too and posts deleted just for exposing some of the bad practices in conjunction with led panel selling...

edit:
NVM, just have a look at this:
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full.pdf+html
Just by reading the headline of that oxford-journal paper it should become obvious that there must be something wrong with the diagrams and text provided by that seller....(that is putting it kindly)

You need to start your own thread and stop trolling put the time and energy into a nice write up and start a thread with it posted in there., I'm guessing your a returning member! with the animosity directed at staff...With that said please, please fallow the rules in here Site Terms Of Use.

 
Sorry, there must be a misconception.
This account is my first account and I dont have any other.
I have no animosity torwards no one here -I just saw this thread and thought "oh no..."

edit:
As mossy suggested, I think this would be a nice idea:
"Members..this is a Lively discussion that has differing points of view even within our Staff..if you would like to Continue it..
maybe you could cut and copy it over to main LED section where everyone can put their opinion in and see if we can Suss it"
 
Super, thanks for that. A thoroughly enjoyable read....I also enjoy reading chinese texts, never mind I don't understand Chinese........could you sort of narrow it down, maybe highlight the most important passages, perhaps a narrative or possible a short summary with a brief conclusion........View attachment 421895

Being a bit daft and having dropped out of Light School ................

Seriously, I did read it and it makes sense.......however judging by some of grows documented here using LED's with ,what some would say, is an "inferior spectrum", it obviously doesn't really matter all that much.........as a guesstimate, what would the increase in yield/quality be if a "more correct spectrum", for want of better expression, was used, say the Gavita LEP light?

If you have not seen it yet, one such grow is here https://www.autoflower.org/f109/tangs-dinafem-cheese-auto-dp-auto-ultimate-38389.html

What kind of grow light would you recommend/buy yourself?
 
We know...red is good, blue is good...with this paper it becomes clear that green is good too ;-)
in other words: HPS is good
There is no such thing as just use "spectrum XY" and yields will hit the roof, as Led- marketing suggests.
Just get it balanced, heavier on the red side, not too much blue at is can cause chlorophyll evasion, photoinhibition etc.
As for led, unfortunately green leds are very bad...the leds by itself, not the wavelengths.
But there is a solution....: white leds, especially warm white for "flowering plants"
At increasing light levels green becomes more and more imporant, due to saturation of chloros with red light.

What im trying to say...yes of course spectrum makes a difference, but its not thaaaat important...

Where leds can really shine is efficiency.
Efficiency means: energy you put in (electric bill) vs photons that come out of it/ and heat
A good 1000W HPS reaches about 34% efficiency in PAR Watt/Watt.
Lower Watt HPS are worse.
Leds can put out 50% and more.
And this is where they can crush HPS.

What kind of grow light would you recommend/buy yourself?
Id recommend to build your own light.
Just use CXA3070 3000K Z4 Warmwhite Cob leds, those are "single" large Leds that can run with up to 114Watts, drive them at 50W for around 40% efficiency, or 12W for about 50W.
As you can see, driving them lower increases efficiency but means less watts...means more $$$ needs to be invested. Double edged sword, as with all good things.
And those CXA3070...they are not the best Leds you can get, but they are the best in terms of "value for your money" as far as i know.
With white leds there is no need for a defusor.
I recommend you to ask google about them.

Dont get me wrong on that other thread. I think that HS1 is very good, nice quality leds driven at nice current. I just dont like their claims...because 2x wont beat 600W HPS and their $$$ is a bit steep. But on the other hand I understand that new things like their exhaust jet costs money (and i really like the innovation)
There are some other good led panels, but mentioning them does not comply with terms of use of this forum.

If someone disagrees with my opionions I would not mind to discuss it.

edit:
also in that other thread I posted:
http://highpower4s.com/green-light-is-it-important-for-plant-growth/
Twenty-five percent green light could substitute for the same percentage of blue light without affecting fresh weight.
"
So quite an amount of light gets changed to totally diff wavelengths, yet yield stays the same...spectrum not thaaat important
 
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Well said. I couldn't agree more with you on the claims and piss poor documentation that virtually every LED peddler plaster their websites with. Obviously there is no need as they seem to be flying out the door without a second thought. GN is sadly not much different, albeit they have toned down the rhetoric and given the colorful charts and diagrams a miss...........best documentation seems to be actual grows and this is a bit hit and miss as many other factors influences the size/quality of what comes out of a grow..........and here a few companies stand out.
 
I quite agree with lax's view.
Relying on led sellers for simplified and thus wrong explanations of how exactly things work is flawed, I much prefer research papers and reliable users opinions with documented results.
Too bad there are more things to test than there are possibilities to do so, however timing is on our side and I'm sure the next few(or more) years will bring even more changes in lightning technologies.
 
For the "Action Spectrum" that is shown on top have a look at this:

Fig9.png
2nd diagramm:
Photosynthetic action spectra for the green alga Ulva (two cell layers) (Haxo & Blinks, 1950) and higher plants (multiple cell layers). The curve for higher plants represents the average of action spectra obtained for 22 crop plants (McCree, 1971/1972) recalculated on a photon Basis.
http://www.photobiology.info/Gorton.html

The Led seller bases his arguments on "green alga".
Then look at the HPS spectrum chart on top and look at the line in the background and compare to the spectrum for "crop plants"...the HPS seller is showing the real deal...
 
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