Need help diagnosing issue(s)

[Dr. Frog]

Hi there,

I've got two plants, and both are exhibiting issues. I'll start with the worst. The Think Different I've got going this time around has had trouble from the start, being smaller and slower than the other plant. It started to show some speckled leaves and always looks weak and wilted.



The serrated leaf tips are curling down and the new growth is twisted. I've also found mutant leaves on some of the older growth.



I'm using Dr. Earth POTting soil for the first time. On paper it looks like a great mix, but I don't know what's going on. I've been watering with dechlorinated tap water which is close to ph neutral. I've only given the plants seaweed and minor amounts of fish hydrolysate on occasion.


So my other plant, an Auto Pineapple Express, is doing much better than the TD, but some of the older leaves are fading and have a few spotty leaves.



I'm thinking it's just hungry for nitrogen? Kind of just wanted a second opinion, trying to diagnose my own plants is frustrating.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to help a newb out!

 

[Waximus]

Hi Dr. Frog. Great strains you got there At first look, I'd say you have a pH issue in the soil. I agree that they look N def, but the pH being out could be locking it out. Do you know the pH of your soil?

 

[Dr. Frog]

Thanks Waximus! I actually don't have a clue about the pH of my soil. I'm layed off for the summer so a pH meter is slightly out of my budget. I do have liquid pH testing solution. Would it be possible to measure the collected runoff this way?

 

[Waximus]

Its not ideal, but if you can collect some clear runoff with a clean syringe/bulb, then at least you can see if its way off. I suspect it is. See if you can do this, on your next watering: test the water/nute before pouring into the pot- note the reading from the test solution. Then water the plant(s) through to runoff and collect enough to test that runoff. Post those results. It'll at least give a ballpark, and maybe a direction to go in order to get the pH back into spec. Some of the gurus will likely be along later, and I'd like to hear their take, as well. I feel pretty confident that its a pH issue.

 

[Learner]

Defo see a cpl patches of cal def too so either multiple defs or more likely ph outta whack as waximus sed, the drooping backs that up too, ph tester is a must unless u no exactly wat it is from routine that hasn't changed, u can get a pack of strips of ebay for cpl £ but they bit useless if u want precision, i find td has no problems from like 6-7.5 so must b severely out maybe too heavy on the feed? So I would suggest a flush n gentle feed without any ph down if ure sure ur water is basically neutral, Tis always better to b gentle they don't need much too flourish, gd luck

 

[Dr. Frog]

Awesome guys! Thanks for the input. I will test the water and runoff as described by Waximus. Man AFN rules!

 

[Muddy]

I agree that it's probably pH related. Anytime you see multiple deficiencies that's always the place to start.

 

[Dr. Frog]

Alright I watered the TD today and tested the pH at several points. Everyone's pH hunch seems to be spot on.

Here's how it went down. As stated before, my tap water comes out just about neutral. What I hadn't tested before was the water *after* letting it sit out for chlorine evaporation. It seems to be slightly more alkaline than tap.



So I mixed up a rather gentle feed, and tested that.



Came out pretty acidic, close to 5. This is annoying. Everything I could find about General Organics says "no need to pH, living soil will balance it, etc," and to a certain extent I imagine those claims are true. I never had a problem before using this soil.

So after watering to slight runoff, I tested the runoff from the collection saucer. I cleaned the saucer beforehand for accuracy.



Came out about the same. >_<

Part of me still imagines that the feed solution in the soil is being balanced, despite the runoff being nearly the same as the feed. Maybe it takes time? I mean, I figured pH was more important for salt based fertilizer regimes, not this organic approach... But then again, the plants aren't happy, and they don't lie. Ahh, cognitive dissonance!

Maybe this soil just isn't so great at buffering the pH?

So what's the best course of action? I don't have bottles of pH up or down. Do I adjust the feed, or do I add buffering agents of some kind to the soil?

 

[Waximus]

Maybe this soil just isn't so great at buffering the pH?

So what's the best course of action? I don't have bottles of pH up or down. Do I adjust the feed, or do I add buffering agents of some kind to the soil?

Hi Dr., Well.. that was the result we expected :/ .. When I started using TLO soil, I too was anticipating the pH to buffer itself- there are so many references to it in various books and articles.. The reality, from my experiences, is that my nute mix (Aurora/Roots Organic) will swing as follows:
My well water is 6.92- 7.12 out of the faucet.
I add nutes as directed, and it crashes the soup to 4.9-5.1 !
If I leave it overnight (they recommend it), it swings back up to a stable 5.4ish... Always. Every time...

So, I pH UP to get to 6.5-6.7, and all is well. The soil is 6.7, and runoff comes out 6.5-6.6..

So, I reckon IF we had our soil in perfect balance (?) the buffering would eliminate the fast swings, but if the soil is a really low pH (for any number of reasons- including being that way out of the bag..), it will be fighting the root biology unless countered by pHing the nute soup appropriately.
I'm going to let some soil gurus pipe in on what you should do to get the pH of the soil up (I'm just not confident in giving you direction, as my experiences aren't deep enough to know for absolute sure). If it were me, I'd be surface dressing some powdered lime and watering that in. The nutes I use have a powdered cal mag that is surface dressed every other feeding..
Once you can get the soil pH to behave, and play nice, you are back in business.
Great job with the diagnostics, too! That was vital info you got right there Very best to you

 

[Dr. Frog]

I see. I like the bit about letting your nute soup sit out. I've heard of similar practices with things like Earth Juice. General Organics says to use immediately, or to aerate the solution until it's used. The wording makes it seem either approach is equivalent, but I bet airing it out first would condition it into being more balanced and stable.

Most frustrating at the moment is having suspected a pH issue, watering, THEN finding out it sure was a pH issue.

Suppose I went out and got a bit of lime this minute... could I top dress and water the plants again today? Or do I let them suffer until drying sufficiently for the next drench?