Overwatered or Nitrogen Tox?

[Jrw1981]

Problem: Drooping/clawed leaves and spots

Medium/grow method: Coco Loco in 3 gal/11L fabric pots.

Feed and supplements used: Using TaNgs easy feed schedule. AN PH Perfect Sensi Bloom A (4-0-0) and B (0-4-5). GH CaliMagic (1-0-0). 1mL/L of each currently. Each plant is getting 2L hand watered daily and runoff is shop vacuumed from drip pan.

Water source: Tap water. pH is 7.6, 0048 ppm, EC is .98 straight from the tap. After nutes are added, the pH perfect brings pH to 6.1 to 6.5. Haven't checked ppm/EC after nutes but can if requested.

Strain/age: White Widow Auto fem. 17 days from sprout.

Light used: 3 x Viparspectra R300. Approx 19 in from tops on a 20/4 schedule.

Climate: Day temps 74-77F. Night temps 66-69F. RH between 38-55%.

Additional info: Affected plant was topped 2 days ago on day 15 from sprout. Other two were topped yesterday (day 16). All are on the same feed schedule. The other two plants exhibit some of the same symptoms, but to a much lesser degree.

So, first grow here. As I understood it, coco "couldn't be overwatered." So, I proceeded to water daily to runoff with nutes every water. Now, at I research more, I see conflicting answers on that topic.

As a rookie here, I'm not able to tell whether this is over watered or Nitrogen tox, so not really sure how to treat. Allow to dry some more or continue watering with lower strength feed? Any advice?

 

[Jrw1981]

Some pics of her sister. Same feed schedule. Much healthier...

 

[GoAuto6]

Is this completed? It looks a bit heavy on the N. But I wouldn't worried for now,. Just don't up the feeds for now.

 

[Jrw1981]

It's not completed. Not sure how I got that. Trying to fix now. Noob mistake...lol

 

[Jrw1981]

Is this completed? It looks a bit heavy on the N. But I wouldn't worried for now,. Just don't up the feeds for now.

Ok, got the completed badge gone.

So, N tox was where I initially was leaning, but didn't want to continue watering (with a slightly weaker feed) if some of you more experienced growers thought it could be overwatering. More specifically, too frequent watering. I've read a lot of differing viewpoints on watering in coco and specifically Coco Loco.

 

[Waira]

Hmmm, might be a touch oversaturated,... but you heard right generally, coco breaths/drains far better than true soil, and is made to be run wet,... This may not be tat either, looking closer,.. this is more of a leaf curl, vs. a saggy droop in the petioles and fingers,... might be just uneven growth, shifting behavior from the topping event,... but nothing to sweat so far as I can see, no other symptoms... let her grow for a bit and see,... a less likely issue might be a touch of N toxicity, so watch the tips for more distinct clawing,... Nute dosage seems OK? A TDS/EC reading will help,... and i know AN has a lot of N in it,.. you using their Ca-Mg too? that has a lot of N, as much as grow!

 

[Jrw1981]

Hmmm, might be a touch oversaturated,... but you heard right generally, coco breaths/drains far better than true soil, and is made to be run wet,... This may not be tat either, looking closer,.. this is more of a leaf curl, vs. a saggy droop in the petioles and fingers,... might be just uneven growth, shifting behavior from the topping event,... but nothing to sweat so far as I can see, no other symptoms... let her grow for a bit and see,... a less likely issue might be a touch of N toxicity, so watch the tips for more distinct clawing,... Nute dosage seems OK? A TDS/EC reading will help,... and i know AN has a lot of N in it,.. you using their Ca-Mg too? that has a lot of N, as much as grow!

Thanks for the advice, man. I do have some of AN's Calmag, but I've been running CaliMagic due to the N in it. I'll get some readings later today when I water.

I did skip yesterday's watering. I figured it would dry out a touch and use up some of the N in the leaves/medium. I intended on resuming today with a slightly weaker feed. I'll update as I'm able to get out to the plants and check on them. Not super concerned as t this point, but definitely appreciative of the second opinions. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Jrw1981]

Ok, here's an update: things have escalated quickly, and I think I know why.

First here's the latest pics:

Here's what has happened since yesterday. They got their regular water/feed yesterday after skipping a day. Looked pretty good when I went to bed.

Woke up this morning and decided it was time to start some light lst after their topping 4 days ago. Pulled her out to see this.

After my research and digging, here's my amateur diagnosis. You pro's feel free to let me know if I'm off track. Her sisters are doing ok. It looks like a P deficiency to me. Being that there's plenty of P in her feed, I decided to look further into pH. So, using the "pH Perfect" nutes, I've been checking the pH before the feed. Checked yesterday and had pH at 6.1 and just over 600 ppm going in. Didn't check runoff because, well you know, pH perfect. Fast forward to this morning...

See the spots. Suspect P def. Decide to water in order to check runoff pH. Damn near 8... 7.98 to be precise! Holy crap....pH is not perfect. So, I went back to the old feed. GH Flora Trio. Flushed at 600 ppm and pH at 5.8...each plant got about 1.5 gallons in an attempt to start bringing the pH back down.

So, what say you vets? Am I even warm here, or am I wandering around in the dark?

 

[BII]

Your pH going in with AN pH Perfect (which product?) is essentially 'perfect,' at 6.1 definitely close enough to the ideal for coco. I see no rational to switch to what I'd consider lesser quality base nutes (if only because it's not 'pH Perfect). Why abandon pH Perfect? It's obviously not the cause of your in in-ground pH issues.

What goes in does not rule out other things affecting in-pot pH. With runoff pH so high (presuming accurate measurement), I'd presume there is some other problem in the soil/medium.

A perhaps good or best option is to very carefully transplant the affected plants into larger pots with fresh coco/medium. I'd just cut much or all of the bottom off of the current pot, drop that into a larger pot, and add any needed coco/media, such as around the sides (if using large diameter pot).

 

[Jrw1981]

Your pH going in with AN pH Perfect (which product?) is essentially 'perfect,' at 6.1 definitely close enough to the ideal for coco. I see no rational to switch to what I'd consider lesser quality base nutes (if only because it's not 'pH Perfect). Why abandon pH Perfect? It's obviously not the cause of your in in-ground pH issues.

What goes in does not rule out other things affecting in-pot pH. With runoff pH so high (presuming accurate measurement), I'd presume there is some other problem in the soil/medium.

One option is to wait and see, hope the plant adapts as it grows/ages.

Hey thanks for stopping in. It's the Sensi Coco Bloom A/B. Why switch? Good question and the honest answer is, I went back to what was working before I had these issues. I ran the Trio for the first couple of weeks and switched to AN after reading and researching. Honestly dude, it's my first grow and I liked the idea of simple. Everything was healthy before, but I liked the idea of one less thing to worry about. After reading TaNg's thread, I gave it a shot.

When this issue came up, I knew that I needed to lower the pH in the medium. I've read that adjusting the AN Sensi line with pH Up/Down causes more problems than good, so I went back to the basics in order to try to establish a baseline. End of the day, I'm all ears, but I needed to do something until I could hear back from you more experienced growers.