Possible micro-def, multiple strains, 100% organic soil

[GodAmJT]

The breeders are DP and Dinafem.. All of the plants are grown in a homemade soil, that this is the 2nd run of it. Plants are almost all close to 3ft tall, which leads me to believe there may be more than just 1 deficiency. Soil pH has been measured w/ an Accurate-8 in a couple areas of root zone and all of the pH readings were between 6.4-6.8 from top of the pots to the bottoms..

The largest plant, the AutoUltimate, has some necrosis on the leaf margins, mostly towards the top of the plant, both fan leaves and sugar leaves show signs. Not a lot at the bottom. A little bit of interveinal chlorosis towards the bottom fan leaves.. Overall though, the rest of the plant looks great!!

1 of my ThinkDifferents is showing major fan leaf necrosis. I believe this plant to be suffering from possible P and micros (Mn/Mg/Mb). Plant is almost done and the buds look good, so I'm not sure if I'm gonna bother treating it, seeing as I believe it only has about a week or so left.. All of the sugar leaves are still nice and green, so it's possible this plant is just at its end of life..

3 of my Dinafem WWXXLs are showing lower-end necrosis

I've been reading through the diagnosis thread that @Waira did and it's been wicked helpful in which direction to start heading, but I'm not sure if I should feed them a tea.. I have been using Mammoth P with good results, but I also think that it accelerated the plants' use of the soil.. This a recycled mix, and I believe could be on its 3rd use.. Everything had been completely healthy up until now, so I think the soil may need some more work.. I may not have reamended enough last time.. Anyway, I have a host of things I can use, to include TM-7, guanos, EWCs, GO Ancient Forest, Mammoth P, Recharge, different meals to include kelp and rock phosphorous..

 

[Gatorbackbob]

I've been battling similar issues, and cob height seems to play a big part in my setup, the plants are basically over eating causing lockouts, due to hyper photosynthesis from extreme light, this might not be your issue, but if you have spare space to run one more of one of those strains under a purple led with the same soil, it'll help a lot of people out, I don't have the space to do so. @Smorf was having similar issues as well, but he's battling alkaline soil. Please keep us posted.

 

[Waira]

JT mon-- are you doing a rich soil/organic goodies type grow here? The A8 pH info is a big help,... any pots that are high 6's+ are prone to certain micronute lockout, as you've noted,.. Fe, Zn, Mn,... (IMO, Zn defc. shows way before this theoretical chart does; B too)....

>> top pic: a whole plant pic would be helpful,.. but that looks like some K defc. starting; usually that browning on the margin teeth tips is tell-tale,.. (but ironically, K tox' shows the same way mostly)-- any high PK inputs on her? What sourcing of micronutes is in there,.. this pattern could pass for P defc, also B defc. especially since this is on the top leaves, and hitting sugars as well,...not to say there can't be more than one acting here,.. the yellowing, while not a symptom usually associated with P defc,. I see as a co-symptom too often now to be coincidence,.... but it's a generic one, so could be linked to others,... if this pot is higher pH, I'm leaning toward a likely combo defc.'s including B... but I need more info on nute inputs and what's in there already,...

>> Middle: yeah, might be a touch of micro's defc., but another thing, that yellowing with P defc., can happen higher up than is typical too,.. I think the plant is "wise" enough not to spend the extra energy to translocate the P from all the way down to the lowers, much better to tap into "local" sources! ... do you have a micronutrient supp'? Earth Juice Microblast is my fav', broad spectrum elements, many sulfate compounds which is great for the extra S and readily dissolved/absorbed form,... But as you say, if she's that close, best just let her cruise home,...

>> Dina-chicks: ... hmm, looking like mainly N defc. fan tapping, at least on the lowers/mids... no spots, necrosis, overall fade,.. some symptom overlap with Mg defc early on, and one can mask the other,... upper fading might be too, same reasoning as for P above, but might be P defc. yellowing too,...

... yeah, I'd say the plants have feed well and drained the pots quite a bit! For fastest results, use sources that are fast (available) to get in there and working,.. rock P might be too slow,.. Bat poo would be better,... for micro's, gotta go synthetic man, no time for "natural" sources to get converted and absorbable,... The very best way to go for micro' defc's is with Optic Foliar Transport and Microblast, bypass the root zone entirely, and direct-inject that good stuff right where it's needed, immediately,... ... most micro's are not mobile within the plant,....

 

[GodAmJT]

JT mon-- are you doing a rich soil/organic goodies type grow here? The A8 pH info is a big help,... any pots that are high 6's+ are prone to certain micronute lockout, as you've noted,.. Fe, Zn, Mn,... (IMO, Zn defc. shows way before this theoretical chart does; B too)....
View attachment 825243

>> top pic: a whole plant pic would be helpful,.. but that looks like some K defc. starting; usually that browning on the margin teeth tips is tell-tale,.. (but ironically, K tox' show the same way mostly)-- any high PK inputs on her? What sourcing of micronutes is in there,.. this pattern it could pass for P defc, also B defc. especially since this is at the top leaves, and hitting sugars as well,...not to say it can't be more than one acting here,.. the yellowing, while not a symptoms usually associated with P defc,. I see as a co-symptom too often now to be coincidence,.... but it a generic one, so could be linked to others,... if this pot is higher pH, I'm leaning toward a likely combo defc.'s including B... but I need more info on nute inputs and what's in there already,...

>> Middle: yeah, might be a touch of micro's defc., but another thing, that yellowing with P defc., can happen higher up than is typical too,.. I think the plant is "wise" enough not to spend the extra energy to translocate the P from all the way down to the lowers, much better to tap into "local" sources! ... do you have a micronutrient supp'? Earth Juice Microblast is my fav', broad spectrum elements, many sulfate compounds which is great for the extra S and readily dissolved/absorbed form,... But as you say, if she's that close, best just let her cruise home,...

>> Dina-chicks: ... hmm, looking like mainly N defc. fan tapping, at least on the lowers/mids... no spots, necrosis, overall fade,.. some symptom overlap with Mg defc early on, and one can mask the other,... upper fading might be too, same reasoning as for P above, but might be P defc. yellowing too,...

... yeah, I'd say the plants have feed well and drained the pots quite a bit! For fastest results, use sources that are fast (available) to get in there and working,.. rock P might be too slow,.. Bat poo better,... for micro's, gotta go synthetic man, no time for "natural" sources to get converted and absorbable,... The very best way to go for micro' defc's is with Optic Foliar Transport and Microblast, bypass the root zone entirely, and direct-inject that good stuff right where it's needed, immediately,... ... most micro's are not mobile within the plant,....

I sure do love me some good science!!!!!!!!

So here's a picture of most of the stuff I have.. I think I may have an approach after reading your explanation.. I took a couple more pictures of the AutoUltimate.. As I was down there this morning, I checked the ThinkDifferent that looks close and I'd say at least 60%+ of the trichs are cloudy, so I think that plant is just finishing up..

As for the soil.......

When I originally put it together, I hadn't really known about AFN, so I made a big batch of "Subcool's" recipe, and have recycled it since then.. After reading a lot of stuff on here, I have tried a couple variations of amending the old soil.. Seems like the last batch worked much better, and longer.. This batch, I barely got 2 full months out of it before the plants are showing def.. I use the local tap water, which has decent Ca in it, as well as Fe.. I had been using the Mammoth P, once weekly, up until I Started noticing the early stages of def.. Most of the plants are showing the def. on their fan leaves, but primarily towards the top, except the WWXXLs, which show the leaf necrosis lower, but the interveinal chlorosis globally.. When I get home from work, I'll see if I can get some better pictures, as I will be needing to water them, so the timing works out well!!!


Thanks for the helps you guys!!!

@Gatorbackbob I had originally had that thought, since it seems the deficiencies showed up a little sooner once I starting use the AutoCOBs, but I already have a MarsII-converted-to-COB panel.. Maybe more COB light is stimulating more growth?? These are absolutely, the largest autos I've ever grown, and been doing it for a little over 5yrs, mostly perpetual.. The only new things I've got or am doing, are the autoCOBs and the Mammoth P.. I also wanna throw out there, however small, I'm using 2-CO2 bags (Exhale-brand).. Not sure if that is gonna make THAT much of a difference, although they are right next to the plants..

 

[GodAmJT]

@Waira I also forgot to mention.. When I started seeing the margin burning on the AutoUltimate (first pic), I added a half-strength dose of the Alaska MorBloom (0-10-10), a few drops of GH Rapid Root, a TBS of molasses, no Mammoth P, and 1ml of GH Floralicious+ since it's a humic/fulvic, but very little micro support..


About to go water them and here's what it's going to be per U.S. Gallon:

- 1/4tsp TM-7 Micronutes + humic acid (and Boron)
- 1TBS molasses
- 1.5ml Mammoth P
- 2tsp Alaska MorBloom


I had sorta top-coated w/ a large scoop of EWCs a few days ago and worked it into the soil.. I'm going to put a couple small scoops (couple TBS) of the Jamaican bat guano towards the base of the plant and then water it.. I had thought about making a tea with the guano, EWCs, molasses, Recharge and possibly some fish bone meal, and bubble 24hrs.. I'm starting to get to that point where I think harvest will be affected if I don't do something soon, so I may just make the tea anyway..


Thanks a ton for all of the help and insight!!!!!!! I truly appreciate and value your wisdom and will try my best to adhere to your advice!!!

 

[Waira]

...sounds good mate!... it'll take some days for it all to get processed and absorbed and put to work,.. aside from the usual N tapping from fans, look first to see if progression is slowing.halting,.. some color correction may happen, by really hammered leaves will get finished off and ditched anyway,... Good on the TM-7 (looked it up) - full dose of that! As many of these are immobile as mentioned, a constant albeit low level amount needs to be around for the plant to take in,... the MP will help speed the P in there, along with the micro's.. their proprietary blend of microbes is geared specifically for this, unlike most of the other inoculants,...