New Grower Regarding the sticky--Beware Ocean forest

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I'm at the tail end of my first grow. I used Ocean Forest and Happy Frog mixed. I have reason to suspect I have a less than thoroughly nourished plant. I fed lightly throughout maybe too lightly and that may be the issue. But I'm keen to find out if the soil ph contributed to less than optimal nutrient uptake.

Having said that I'm less suspicious of Fox Farm quality than the method of measuring the soil ph. I've used a couple of soil probes and I'm underwhelmed. I just went through a series of ph tests of container soils and soil in my yard comparing the 2 meters and it smacks of inconsistency.

Try to follow the bouncing ball:
The ph of the runoff water in my grow is 5.5. I'm told this implies a 4.5 ph if watering with 6.5 AND that the runoff ph is not valid.

With a Lusterleaf soil meter the grow pot reads 7.0 but everything I try with it reads 7.0.

I get an Accurate 8 and get a reading in the pot of 6.4 right after watering with 6.6 ph.

This morning I take Muddy's guidance and fill 4 inch pots with Ocean Forest and Happy Frog and water. The runoff of the HF=5.8, the OF=5.2 pretty much the same as my container ph after weeks of waterings and feedings. For grins I then did the same with Black Gold soil and got 5.7.

Then I stick the Accurate 8 in the maybe too wet(?) Fox Farm soils in the 4 inch pots and the needle doesn't budge, 7.0. I try the stubborn Lusterleaf that never says anything but 7.0 and lo and behold it shows sign of life, reads north of 6.0.

Putting the probes through paces I take them outside where it's been showering. The Accurate 8 registers 6.0 in the ground, the Lusterleaf the default 7.0 again.

Inconsistency runs rampant. I don't trust my method. One thing I got is the OF runoff water in the same test came in .6 lower than the other 2 soils. Would that not be 5 times more acidic? I will retest the soils with the A8 tonight when they've had a chance to drain as per Muddy's instructions. Maybe the soil was too wet or too shallow for the A8 to get a good reading. I don't know.
 
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I never check soil readings the same day as when I water/feed. I always wait a day or two so the excess water has time to drain and the soil has time to absorb the water completely and for the pH to stabilize. When reading a pot always take 3 readings and average them. Make sure to clean the probe on the Accurate 8 well between each reading and give it enough time to stabilize, which can take 5 minutes or longer.

In my experience run off pH does vary from what I get from the Accurate 8, but usually not by more than about .2. So while run off measurements may not be quite as accurate, they are pretty close. Close enough to gauge the pH for someone who doesn't have a good soil probe.
 
Do a slurry test to confirm your Accurate 8

It IS possible to have 2 faulty soil probes (even the vaunted Accurate 8)....I had to send my first Accurate 8 back and get a new one.

It has been my experience that (generally speaking) my wetter soil tests a little lower and my dryer soil tests a little higher.

Forgive me for not knowing, but how are you testing run-off pH? If it's a calibrated pH pen then the slurry will tell you everything.

take a couple spoonfuls of soil (from the plant pot) and put it in a cup with some of whatever water your using, stir it around and let
it sit for 30 minutes stirring occasionally. Then test the water in the slurry. From what I've been told, that will be your soil pH. (aprox.)

Then take that number and compare it to your soil probe's reading. If they are vastly different then there's a good chance you
have a bum probe. It happens...
 
I never check soil readings the same day as when I water/feed. I always wait a day or two so the excess water has time to drain and the soil has time to absorb the water completely and for the pH to stabilize. When reading a pot always take 3 readings and average them. Make sure to clean the probe on the Accurate 8 well between each reading and give it enough time to stabilize, which can take 5 minutes or longer.

In my experience run off pH does vary from what I get from the Accurate 8, but usually not by more than about .2. So while run off measurements may not be quite as accurate, they are pretty close. Close enough to gauge the pH for someone who doesn't have a good soil probe.

In that case I offer 2 conclusions. The OF is low at 5.2. And suggesting a soil's ph is 4.5 because the runoff of 6.5 water measures 5.5 is erroneous.

- - - Updated - - -
says Trapper:

Forgive me for not knowing, but how are you testing run-off pH? If it's a calibrated pH pen then the slurry will tell you everything.

I collect runoff from the saucer and measure it using an ecotestr ph 1 which I have confidence actually works. I calibrate it with 7.0 solution.

take a couple spoonfuls of soil (from the plant pot) and put it in a cup with some of whatever water your using, stir it around and let
it sit for 30 minutes stirring occasionally. Then test the water in the slurry. From what I've been told, that will be your soil pH. (aprox.)

Then take that number and compare it to your soil probe's reading. If they are vastly different then there's a good chance you
have a bum probe. It happens...[/QUOTE]


I'll try it. But what's wrong with just measuring the runoff? You saying runoff and slurry yield different values? Or that you get a ore accurate result letting the water soak in the soil awhile?

Any way to calibrate an Accurate 8? Then you'd know if it's bust.
 
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Nothing wrong with it at all, just trying to offer an alternative method to either validate or invalidate other data...more info from different methods always helps identify which tools can be trusted and which ones may be questionable.
 
Hey Trap,
When you're making a slurry wouldn't the ph of the water you're using change the reading? I don't think you'll get the same number if you do one slurry with 6.5 water and another if you use 7.0 water and yet another if the water is 5.5. Maybe I'm wrong. Haven't tried it out.
 
And suggesting a soil's ph is 4.5 because the runoff of 6.5 water measures 5.5 is erroneous.
That is only an estimate based on the information given but has proven to be relatively accurate over many grows we've witnessed here.
 
Bookmarked thanks muddy,


Some questions though not directed at the brand of soil mentioned in the title just in general.


Will the soil stay at this ph range for good? By this I mean if I get the soil to the right ph 6.5 by using the lime can I let it dry become moist and re bag it to use at a later date? Not talking years here just one grow to the next.


Rather then testing pot after pot could a whole bag be done in one hit?


If 1 tablespoon is 15gs and 4 ltrs to a Gallon


60ltr / 4G = 15 x 30g (2tbs) = 450g per 60ltr


Can you add to much lime? Sticking at the 2tbs I would say not from what I have read.

If you happen to raise the ph of the soil above 6.5 how would you lower it again? I only ask as unsure what the white squares represent in the picture. as most seem okay from 6.5-7.0 Would it just be a case of mixing fresh soil back in to lower it?


Once the soil is at the correct ph range what is the ideal Ph water to be using for each watering. Ph`ed plan water for me is kinda high 7.5-7.8 ish so most of veg I would need to Ph down my water and I was to 6.5 although so many say to not bother using anything and just water, saying the soil will buffer it. Is this the case now with the lime added at the right amount to achieve the right soil ph range.

Once feed is added this drops to 7.1 /7.2 this must be close enough not to ph anything? if the soil is now the buffer.

I have a few kg of lime and 1 bag of soil left I would like to get this sorted before my next grow and hope the issues I seen this time do not reappear.
 
Hey Trap,
When you're making a slurry wouldn't the ph of the water you're using change the reading? I don't think you'll get the same number if you do one slurry with 6.5 water and another if you use 7.0 water and yet another if the water is 5.5. Maybe I'm wrong. Haven't tried it out.

One would think that the pH of the water used would be salient (seems rational to assume) but I think the soil in the solution equalizes that as a result of the soaking and sitting....I can't really say as I'm not knowledgable enough. I do know that my slurry tests (when compared to my run-off tests and 2 different soil probe readings) helped me identify that the soil probe was WAY off because it was extra confirmation of what the real-(ish) number actually was....

Sorry if that's less than scientific. :)
 
One would think that the pH of the water used would be salient (seems rational to assume) but I think the soil in the solution equalizes that as a result of the soaking and sitting....I can't really say as I'm not knowledgable enough. I do know that my slurry tests (when compared to my run-off tests and 2 different soil probe readings) helped me identify that the soil probe was WAY off because it was extra confirmation of what the real-(ish) number actually was....

Sorry if that's less than scientific. :)

Good deal trap thanks. So am I right in assuming that you've been getting pretty similar readings from the accurate 8 as you do with the slurry?
 
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