seedlings yellowing

[Oneiro]

Hello everyone,

I encounter a very strange problem! The seedlings after day 2 , they stop growing and get yellow stems on leaves. It happened to me 8 times in a row now and i have lost 24 seeds. Its like a curse, i successfully grow 4 plants before and now i cant go further of 2 days seedling period...

The 7 times i used:
Biobizz light mix
Distilled, deionized, tap, Ro water (not all together, i was changing it to find out what will finally work)
HS1 Led ( 1 time i used a MH also , but they turned yellow again)
Runoff i had most of time more than 7 (7,1 -7,4) , but i had also 2 time around 6,5 (and again yellow)
20 - 24 Temp, and 50 - 70 % Hum

The result always the same:

[/IMG]

The last time (8th time) i found the plagron light mix so i gave it a try

Plagron light mix
Water tap ph 7,4
Runoff 7,1
20-24 Temp, 60-70% Hum

and again the same disaster
AutoEuphoria
Day 1

day 3

day 4

Autoblackberry

Day 1

Day 3

Day 4

As you can see i have again the same problem... i tried different waters, different soils, different lights, different ph, so many different things but the same result!

It looks totally like a ph problem to me, a lockout of ma, fe and sulfur, even it looks like a nitrogen def! But i cant find out how i will fix it when they are seedlings... I lost 3 months without having a plant growing more than day 3, after that day they are yellow and stuned!

The most logic thing i can think is to correct ph, tbh i tried it but with deionized water and ph up and down (again the same yellow result) , with RO and sensi AB (yellow again and nut burn also result - i added 1ml per ltr...)


Any ideas mates? thanks for your time!

 

[woody]

Do you have a ph and or ppm meter? Whats your tap water like
Also when you say about testing runoffhow much are you watering seedlings. You shouldnt be watering to runoff until they are much older?

 

[Oneiro]

Yes i have a ph pen but not a ppm! I wonder if my ph pen its broken but it works perfect with the calibration liquids (4 & 7) so its fine i guess!

The runoff test took place just to find out what the hell goes wrong ! I dont water them that much

 

[woody]

Its a strange one dude. You even tried good quality bottled drinking water?

 

[Waira]

...Hmmm, those pH's and symptoms have me thinking some sort of nute' element lockout, most likely Fe, as it locks out fast under even neutral pH (S is just fine under alkaline pH)... I'd ask about it being from the same bag of soil, but that's out,...lights are out regardless, symptoms don't match up at all; distilled, DI, RO should all be the same, near 0ppm's,... your tap doesn't sound very alkaline either, at 7.4, and the Plagron did acidify it some,... all this would be a plus for dealing with Fe too,.. to see it start so soon on seedlings is very odd indeed, as the cotlydons should have enough to at least get the first set of true leaves growing okay,... it bugs me that it happened in the lower pH soil too, and with different strains as well,... that said, the run-off method for testing pH is inherently faulted, lots of potential measurement error in it,.. have a look at this link with an improved methodology--https://www.autoflower.org/threads/...-for-run-off-testing-and-ph-estimation.41733/
.... see if it jives with what you do, and it run again, this time with soil right from the bag,... clearly a common factor is behind this, and with a general lack of other inputs, we're down to soil and water for likely suspects, causing the higher pH's,...the seeds, stored well, no extreme exposures to anything?.... great that you checked the calibration too! .... options-- try starting them in premade plugs, like Root Riot; buy a small bag of seedling starter soil, or coco, and test that out,...

 

[dingo]

If your PH is within an acceptable range and we know that seedlings do not need nutes for at least a week....what type of lights do you use? Are the lights very strong?

 

[din5]

the way I do seedlings in soil, I use a heated propergator, I get them going in a pvc bag in the airing cuboard in a damp kitchen towel cloth, takes 24-48hrs for them to pop, get your pot ready use light mix in a plastic cup or small pot. make sure you mix it 30/70 soil perlite or a bit more perlite if you wish, spray the soil with a good dose of tap water, not saturated just fairly moist, i use a 2 ltr milk container filled with water 2-3 days before so the chlorine can leave the water, I keep them under my 1 ft strip light for a day or too. but if your gonna use your LED light make sure its atleast 3/4ft away or further for atleast the first few days, or if you see stratching move it a bit closer but not too much as a bit of stratching is needed as leds tend to make them short and close nodes if too close.I spray them with normal tap water, not ph adjusted at all. just make sure they dont dry out and dont overwater a couple of squirts from the sprayers plenty. if your having issues using all different types of water then its not the water that's the issue. just dont water with cold water make it stands in the kitchen on the side so it gets room temp. never water with cold. shock thos little plants and byby
I use biobizz light mix to start,
I never ph water for soil but the ph of my waters around 7.5-7.7 a bit high maybe after a week you can ph down your water to 6.8 if you wish but for sum reason when ever I have changed the ph for soil I seem to always get issues with lock outs, but if your water is 7 out of the tap dont bother changing ph of the water at all. unless you get issues at a later date. might be worth checking the ec/ppm with a meter my tap water around 0.4 but its never caused issues.
also might be worth adding half a ml of cal/mag to 1ltr of water to the spray bottle, it certainly wont hurt if you folier feed with water and plant magic cal mag it has all the micro nutes in it and as its foliar feed it will take the mild nutes.

good luck hope that's helped.

 

[Oneiro]

Hello again! Thank you everyone for the replies ! I spent some time on reading and experimenting... stil fighting to find solution... I bought also an EC meter , but i didnt found out smth extreme in the waters i used!

Its a strange one dude. You even tried good quality bottled drinking water?

Yes i did , yellow again

...Hmmm, those pH's and symptoms have me thinking some sort of nute' element lockout, most likely Fe, as it locks out fast under even neutral pH (S is just fine under alkaline pH)... I'd ask about it being from the same bag of soil, but that's out,...lights are out regardless, symptoms don't match up at all; distilled, DI, RO should all be the same, near 0ppm's,... your tap doesn't sound very alkaline either, at 7.4, and the Plagron did acidify it some,... all this would be a plus for dealing with Fe too,.. to see it start so soon on seedlings is very odd indeed, as the cotlydons should have enough to at least get the first set of true leaves growing okay,... it bugs me that it happened in the lower pH soil too, and with different strains as well,... that said, the run-off method for testing pH is inherently faulted, lots of potential measurement error in it,.. have a look at this link with an improved methodology--https://www.autoflower.org/threads/...-for-run-off-testing-and-ph-estimation.41733/
.... see if it jives with what you do, and it run again, this time with soil right from the bag,... clearly a common factor is behind this, and with a general lack of other inputs, we're down to soil and water for likely suspects, causing the higher pH's,...the seeds, stored well, no extreme exposures to anything?.... great that you checked the calibration too! .... options-- try starting them in premade plugs, like Root Riot; buy a small bag of seedling starter soil, or coco, and test that out,...

Exactly mate, its totally PH problem! The soil is out , the water is the problem! The PH of it, it contains more CL , i dont know , i am thinking maybe i overwater but why the overwater to show Sulfur lockout ? I bought root riot for the next try but again i have to add water ! What kind of water do you suggest? I tried to find the limits of EC in the water for seedlings , but without success, any idea?

If your PH is within an acceptable range and we know that seedlings do not need nutes for at least a week....what type of lights do you use? Are the lights very strong?

No lights are totally not the problem , a lot of ppl had success veg with them, but also i tried with a MH and had the same result. Its the water, but what...

the way I do seedlings in soil, I use a heated propergator, I get them going in a pvc bag in the airing cuboard in a damp kitchen towel cloth, takes 24-48hrs for them to pop, get your pot ready use light mix in a plastic cup or small pot. make sure you mix it 30/70 soil perlite or a bit more perlite if you wish, spray the soil with a good dose of tap water, not saturated just fairly moist, i use a 2 ltr milk container filled with water 2-3 days before so the chlorine can leave the water, I keep them under my 1 ft strip light for a day or too. but if your gonna use your LED light make sure its atleast 3/4ft away or further for atleast the first few days, or if you see stratching move it a bit closer but not too much as a bit of stratching is needed as leds tend to make them short and close nodes if too close.I spray them with normal tap water, not ph adjusted at all. just make sure they dont dry out and dont overwater a couple of squirts from the sprayers plenty. if your having issues using all different types of water then its not the water that's the issue. just dont water with cold water make it stands in the kitchen on the side so it gets room temp. never water with cold. shock thos little plants and byby
I use biobizz light mix to start,
I never ph water for soil but the ph of my waters around 7.5-7.7 a bit high maybe after a week you can ph down your water to 6.8 if you wish but for sum reason when ever I have changed the ph for soil I seem to always get issues with lock outs, but if your water is 7 out of the tap dont bother changing ph of the water at all. unless you get issues at a later date. might be worth checking the ec/ppm with a meter my tap water around 0.4 but its never caused issues.
also might be worth adding half a ml of cal/mag to 1ltr of water to the spray bottle, it certainly wont hurt if you folier feed with water and plant magic cal mag it has all the micro nutes in it and as its foliar feed it will take the mild nutes.

good luck hope that's helped.

7,7 and dont have any def???? with autos right? omg i am cursed!!!

Anyway i will keep trying , i had this exactly same annoying yeallowing problem also before a year after a flush for changing to flower stage, and fixed it with adding revive to the main programm! But ... it took place overwatering (it was a flush) who might fucked ph or who might prevented roots of absorbing nuts..

This time i will try 2 seeds in root riot directly in soil , covered with plastic cup for 2 days after they show up. Soil will be plagron light mix, diectly from bag with some perlite added .
I have 2 waters:

1) RO water with 0,01 EC , i dont know atm ph but it should be aroun 5,5

2) Tap water , 0,4 EC, 7,5 PH and i have left it open already 5 days now

Any suggestions mates? I am thinking to add some nutes in the 1st options
For the second one i am thinking to add it without anything else, as it is, but also i am thinking to add some ph down ...

ps. Also i disinfected the whole grow room 3 times , just in case there are some bullshits in the air who cause the problem .

 

[namvet25]

1. Lights to close. 2.Something is wrong with your soil mix.PH should not matter this early unless your using chemical nutes that cause lockout but it's way to early for that to happen.My opinion is you have something in your soil mix that came from the manufacturer.I wouldn't feed yet but just see if it continues on it's own or clears up.Try some different soil mix like promix or sunshine mix.

 

[Oneiro]

1. Lights to close. 2.Something is wrong with your soil mix.PH should not matter this early unless your using chemical nutes that cause lockout but it's way to early for that to happen.My opinion is you have something in your soil mix that came from the manufacturer.I wouldn't feed yet but just see if it continues on it's own or clears up.Try some different soil mix like promix or sunshine mix.

It cant be the lights since i tested with mh also, i know the correct distance and there is no any burn! As for the soil i was using biobizz light mix and changed to plagron to see if there will be any difference, but still yellowing!

Everything ends up on water and ph! If it doesnt matter that early why i have def then?