Speckled Leaves

[Renaissance Redneck]

"Smoke bombs" and fumers sound extreme. They look to simply be just permethrin (pyrethrin) aerosol generators, spewing liquid mist. with droplets settling on your plants. [Yes, at this point, you likely need radical treatment]. Contrary to Mr. Redneck citing "toxic residuals," I'd first go with No-Pest Strips and see if that knocks them down (and if so do it again), because the active agent is a gas and does not enter or condense on the plant. [And any few stray molecules that do diffuse into the plant, will simply diffuse out later].

Or to get even more concentrated exposure, slide a plastic garbage bag over your plant and seal in a few No-Pest Strips (or even just 1) for a couple hours.

Certainly, to each his own. Under major attacks, I've even resorted to Seven to treat the soil...
I'd advise reading the label of anything used carefully. If it contains 2,2-dichlorovinyl dimethyl phosphate or any of it's cousins, I'd pass. I don't ever want to have to warn a friend or patient that my medicine is spiked with organophosphates. I'm a licensed pesticide applicator, and once worked for a county weed and pest control department. Food for thought :
"People may not realize that overuse or misuse of pest strips could make them or their family sick. There are few warnings on the label. Dichlorvos attacks an important enzyme in the nervous system of insects and humans. People can get sick from breathing too much pesticide vapor in the air. Early symptoms of overexposure in people include headache, lack of appetite, nausea, vomiting, and difficulty breathing. The pesticide can cause more serious nervous system symptoms if exposure continues. Children have higher breathing rates than adults and may absorb more of the chemical vapor.

There may be long-term health impacts from household use of organophosphates. A number of animal studies have shown that other organophosphate insecticides, similar to dichlorvos, can impair normal brain development and function if exposure occurs early in life. Recent studies in people report that mothers with higher exposures to similar organophosphate insecticides during pregnancy had children who performed lower on intelligence and memory tests and had higher rates of behavioral problems such as ADHD. "
Just saying.

 

[dafthandler]

Gaaahhh!! yes, like I said, EPIC thrips invasion, full breeding population I bet, meaning there are pupating larvae in the soil now,.. multi generations is the point here,... I should have asked first, where are you in the grow, veg', bloom..? This will matter for treatment... bloom will make matters a real bitch, far easier if in veg' for treatments... HM has tangled with this and won! I also like BII's recommendation on the No Pest Strips, just because of the inescapable coverage with a gas,...I have not used them myself, as I'm outdoors, but thrips I know very well. The Strip need some researching, to see if they are safe for blooming plants,... The fumers I need to look up! If they're just pyrethrum (made from chrysanthemums, a food safe pesticide), they they'll be OK pending approved use on blooming plants,...
The soil will still need to be dealt with, probably using diatomaceous earth on the top,... larvae drop to the soil and bury themselves during a form of pupation, emerging as adult-- which can fly, BTW! This is why a whole tent attack is in order, they are highly mobile, and excellent hiders!

2 plants are in bloom, 1 looks close to harvest (on the main cola at least) but the other has 3/4 weeks left I reckon. The other 3 are babies in veg, and will be in veg until the first 2 are finished. The guard 'n' aid uses permethrin (a synthetic version of pyrethrum) as its active ingredient, and although sold on a lot of hydro on-line shops, only one has written that it is not to be used around plants (so much conflicting information).

This website:

https://manicbotanix.com/pesticides-and-cannabis/4/

Says that when permethrin was used in soil on veg, it did not transfer into the veg itself, though some of it does enter the root system. It also states that the substance does not hang around much more that a month after use. But it does also say that foliar application (unsure whether mist or gas) will linger in the flowers for some time.

The same website says that insecticides are not really required when dealing with thrips, and that safer methods of control are available, though does not list what these methods are.

I think I will have to sit it out until the first two girls are complete, using the canna cure sparingly on the leaves of the two in bloom and regular mistings for the three young ones. I will then move the 3 elsewhere while I bomb the growroom, before putting the 3 into flower.

The little buggers!

 

[BII]

Certainly, to each his own. Under major attacks, I've even resorted to Seven to treat the soil...
I'd advise reading the label of anything used carefully. If it contains 2,2-dichlorovinyl dimethyl phosphate or any of it's cousins, I'd pass. I don't ever want to have to warn a friend or patient that my medicine is spiked with organophosphates. I'm a licensed pesticide applicator, and once worked for a county weed and pest control department. Food for thought :
"People may not realize that overuse or misuse of pest strips could make them or their family sick. There are few warnings on the label. Dichlorvos attacks an important enzyme in the nervous system of insects and humans. People can get sick from breathing too much pesticide vapor in the air. Early symptoms of overexposure in people include headache, lack of appetite, nausea, vomiting, and difficulty breathing. The pesticide can cause more serious nervous system symptoms if exposure continues. Children have higher breathing rates than adults and may absorb more of the chemical vapor.

There may be long-term health impacts from household use of organophosphates. A number of animal studies have shown that other organophosphate insecticides, similar to dichlorvos, can impair normal brain development and function if exposure occurs early in life. Recent studies in people report that mothers with higher exposures to similar organophosphate insecticides during pregnancy had children who performed lower on intelligence and memory tests and had higher rates of behavioral problems such as ADHD. "
Just saying.

Yes, dichlorvos is one of the few legacy bad-actor organophosphates pesticides still around (not banned). No-Pest Strips simply should not be used in any area where people or pets will enter, including left in tents.

But Strips sealed up for a short time in a tent or bag -- I presume it's rather safe, with no human exposure (other than when handling it - wash hands, use gloves, etc.) And don't inhale it. If you can smell it, it's probably strong enough to kill insects.

 

[Renaissance Redneck]

2 plants are in bloom, 1 looks close to harvest (on the main cola at least) but the other has 3/4 weeks left I reckon. The other 3 are babies in veg, and will be in veg until the first 2 are finished. The guard 'n' aid uses permethrin (a synthetic version of pyrethrum) as its active ingredient, and although sold on a lot of hydro on-line shops, only one has written that it is not to be used around plants (so much conflicting information).

This website:

https://manicbotanix.com/pesticides-and-cannabis/4/

Says that when permethrin was used in soil on veg, it did not transfer into the veg itself, though some of it does enter the root system. It also states that the substance does not hang around much more that a month after use. But it does also say that foliar application (unsure whether mist or gas) will linger in the flowers for some time.

The same website says that insecticides are not really required when dealing with thrips, and that safer methods of control are available, though does not list what these methods are.

I think I will have to sit it out until the first two girls are complete, using the canna cure sparingly on the leaves of the two in bloom and regular mistings for the three young ones. I will then move the 3 elsewhere while I bomb the growroom, before putting the 3 into flower.

The little buggers!

I absolutely love pyrethrum and it's synthetic cousins And don't get me wrong, used CORRECTLY, even OP's have their place (hell, I already admitted to reaching for carbaryl on occasion ). It's just really important to understand what you're using and how it breaks down. Carb scares me as much if not more than OP, and I treat them with equal respect. If I have to use them, I like a 6 to 8 week period before harvest.

Yes, dichlorvos is one of the few legacy bad-actor organophosphates pesticides still around (not banned). No-Pest Strips simply should not be used in any area where people or pets will enter, including left in tents.

But Strips sealed up for a short time in a tent or bag -- I presume it's rather safe, with no human exposure (other than when handling it - wash hands, use gloves, etc.) And don't inhale it. If you can smell it, it's probably strong enough to kill insects.

Yep. Very well put. I may have come across too harshly, but I see these things being misused all the time. Too many people are willing to grab something that works and just go for it, without really understanding what it is or why it works.
I'm all for killing the bad critters, just kill 'em safely.

 

[Waira]

EDIT-- I looked permethrin up, and I don't like what I see... especially since no where does it say it's a food safe or organic pesticide!! use only products designed for food gardens, etc. to use on cannabis!
Roger that on the synthetic version,.. I read that these have long residence times, slower to break down than natural pyrethrum,.... This is going to come down to how badly the buds are polluted with live, dead ones, and their crap and molt castings,... ... Do chat with HM, he had a couple monster plants that got infested late, and waged a winning war on them... he used a Spinosad product and something else I believe, but I forget how he processed the bud at the end,.. he might have done that washing trick on fresh harvested colas... done right, it won't mess with the trich's, and cleans debris and residues off. I like spinosad because it's very low odor, also breaks down fairly soon, and doesn't leave a lot of residue behind,.. besides, the buds are not of interest to them, in fact, I've seen dead bodies stuck on the trich' heads, killed by the terpenes likely! This is part of the why cannabis has such structures, to repel pests and herbivores... Thrips want nice clean tender leaf surface to feed from, not gummy sticky areas!

 

[dafthandler]

EDIT-- I looked permethrin up, and I don't like what I see... especially since no where does it say it's a food safe or organic pesticide!! use only products designed for food gardens, etc. to use on cannabis!
Roger that on the synthetic version,.. I read that these have long residence times, slower to break down than natural pyrethrum,.... This is going to come down to how badly the buds are polluted with live, dead ones, and their crap and molt castings,... ... Do chat with HM, he had a couple monster plants that got infested late, and waged a winning war on them... he used a Spinosad product and something else I believe, but I forget how he processed the bud at the end,.. he might have done that washing trick on fresh harvested colas... done right, it won't mess with the trich's, and cleans debris and residues off. I like spinosad because it's very low odor, also breaks down fairly soon, and doesn't leave a lot of residue behind,.. besides, the buds are not of interest to them, in fact, I've seen dead bodies stuck on the trich' heads, killed by the terpenes likely! This is part of the why cannabis has such structures, to repel pests and herbivores... Thrips want nice clean tender leaf surface to feed from, not gummy sticky areas!

I have held off using them for now. The canna cure seems to of got rid of the little fecks on the three young uns. The two old girls dont have long left, and like you say, I have not seen any sign of them on the flowers. I think I've been quite lucky with the timing on this occasion.

 

[Renaissance Redneck]

EDIT-- I looked permethrin up, and I don't like what I see... especially since no where does it say it's a food safe or organic pesticide!! use only products designed for food gardens, etc. to use on cannabis!
Roger that on the synthetic version,.. I read that these have long residence times, slower to break down than natural pyrethrum,.... This is going to come down to how badly the buds are polluted with live, dead ones, and their crap and molt castings,... ... Do chat with HM, he had a couple monster plants that got infested late, and waged a winning war on them... he used a Spinosad product and something else I believe, but I forget how he processed the bud at the end,.. he might have done that washing trick on fresh harvested colas... done right, it won't mess with the trich's, and cleans debris and residues off. I like spinosad because it's very low odor, also breaks down fairly soon, and doesn't leave a lot of residue behind,.. besides, the buds are not of interest to them, in fact, I've seen dead bodies stuck on the trich' heads, killed by the terpenes likely! This is part of the why cannabis has such structures, to repel pests and herbivores... Thrips want nice clean tender leaf surface to feed from, not gummy sticky areas!

Permethrin is definitely not an organic, but depending on the product can be used on food crops. I still wouldn't want it on my buds. :smoking:
Sorry for the pdf book
SPECIMEN LABEL UPDATES AVAILABLE AT WWW.GREENBOOK.NET 1
Helena
Permethrin 3.2 EC
Insecticide
RESTRICTED USE PESTICIDE
Due to Toxicity to Fish and Aquatic Organisms
For retail sale to and use only by Certified Applicators, or persons under their
direct supervision, and only for those uses covered by the Certified Applicator’s
certification
Active Ingredient
Permethrin* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36.8%
Other Ingredients** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63.2%
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100.0%
*cis/trans ratio: Max. 42% (±) cis and min. 58% (±) trans
** Contains petroleum distillates.
Contains 3.2 pounds permethrin per gallon as an emulsifiable concentrate.
EPA Reg. No. 70506-9-5905 EPA Est. No. 53883-TX-002
Net Contents: 1 gallon, 30 gallons, 55 gallons
EPA Est. No. is indicated by the first letter of the batch number printed on this
container:
A = 66196-CA-1
B = 37429-GA-02
SN
MANUFACTURED FOR
HELENA CHEMICAL COMPANY
225 SCHILLING BOULEVARD, SUITE 300
COLLIERVILLE, TENNESSEE 38017
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
CAUTION
FIRST AID:
IF SWALLOWED • Immediately call a poison control center or doctor.
• Do not induce vomiting unless told to do so by a poison
control center or doctor.
• Do not give any liquid to the person.
• Do not give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.
IF ON SKIN OR • Take off contaminated clothing.
CLOTHING • Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15-20
minutes.
• Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
IF IN EYES • Hold eye open and rinse slowly and gently with water for
15-20 minutes.
• Remove contact lenses, if present, after the first 5 minutes,
then continue rinsing eye.
• Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
IF INHALED • Move person to fresh air.
• If person is not breathing, call 911 or an ambulance, then give
artificial respiration, preferably by mouth to mouth if possible.
• Call a poison control center or doctor for further treatment
advice.
Have the product container or label with you when calling a poison
control center or doctor, or going for treatment. For emergency medical
assistance call the National Pesticide Information Center 1-800-858-7378.
FOR CHEMICAL EMERGENCY: Spill, leak, fire,
exposure, or accident call CHEMTREC 1-800-424-9300
NOTE TO PHYSICIAN: Contains petroleum distillates—vomiting may cause
aspiration pneumonia
PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS
Hazards to Humans & Domestic Animals.
CAUTION. Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Avoid
contact with skin, eyes or clothing. Avoid breathing vapor or spray mist. Wash
thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated clothing
and wash before reuse. Do not allow people or pets on treated surfaces until the
spray has dried. Do not touch treated surfaces until the spray has dried.
Environmental Hazards
This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to treatment and for 3 days following
treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen-shedding or nectar-
producing parts of plants if bees may forage on the plants during this time period.
The 3 day limitation does not apply if the applicator operates in a state with
a formal, state-approved bee protection program, and the applicator follows all
applicable requirements of the state-approved program designed to ensure that
managed bees are not present in the treatment area during this time period.
This product is extremely toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply
directly to water, or to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas
below the mean high water mark. Do not contaminate water by cleaning of
equipment or disposal of equipment washwaters. Do not apply when weather
conditions favor drift from treated areas. Drift and runoff from treated areas may
be hazardous to aquatic organisms in neighboring areas.
Do not discharge effluent containing this product into lakes, streams, ponds,
estuaries, oceans or other waters unless in accordance with the requirements
of a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit and the
permitting authority has been notified in writing prior to discharge. Do not
discharge effluent containing this product to sewer systems without previously
notifying the local sewage treatment plant authority. For guidance contact your
State Water Board or Regional Office of the EPA.
Physical/Chemical Hazards
Do not use or store near heat or open flame.
Personal Protection Equipment (PPE)
All pesticide handlers (mixers, loaders, and applicators) must wear long-sleeved
shirt and long pants, socks, shoes, and chemical-resistant gloves. After the product
is diluted in accordance with label directions for use, and/or when mixing and
loading using a closed spray tank transfer system such as U-Turn, or an in-line
injector system, shirt, pants, socks, shoes, and waterproof gloves are sufficient.
Follow manufacturer’s instruction for cleaning/maintaining PPE. If no such in-
structions are available for washables, use detergent and hot water. Keep and
wash PPE separately from other laundry.
User Safety Recommendations:
Users should:
• Remove clothing immediately if pesticide gets inside. Then wash thoroughly
and put on clean clothing.
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with
its labeling.
Do not apply this product in a way that will contact workers or other persons,
either directly or through drift. Only protected handlers may be in the area during
application. For any requirements specific to your State or Tribe, consult the
agency responsible for pesticide regulation.
Resistance: Some insects are known to develop resistance to products used re-
peatedly for control. Because the development of resistance cannot be predicted,
the use of this product should conform to resistance management strategies es-
tablished for the use area. Consult your local or state agricultural authorities for
details.
If resistance to this product develops in your area, this product, or other products
with a similar mode of action may not provide adequate control. If poor perfor-
mance cannot be attributed to improper application or extreme weather conditions,
a resistant strain of insect may be present. If you experience difficulty with control
and resistance is a reasonable cause, immediately consult your local agricultural
advisor for the best alternative method of control for your area.
Agricultural Use Requirements
Use this product only in accordance with its labeling and with the Worker Pro-
tection Standard, 40 CFR Part 170. This Standard contains requirements for the
protection of agricultural workers on farms, forests, nurseries and greenhouses,
and handlers of agricultural pesticides. It contains requirements for training,
decontamination, notification, and emergency assistance. It also contains spe-
cific instructions and exceptions pertaining to the statements on this label about
personal protective equipment (PPE) and restricted-entry interval. The require-
ments in this box only apply to uses on this product that are covered by Worker
Protection Standard.
Do not enter or allow worker entry to treated areas during the restricted entry
interval (REI) of 12 hours.
PPE required for early entry to treated areas that is permitted under the Worker
Protection Standard and that involves contact with anything that has been treated,
such as plants, soil or water, is:
• Coveralls over long-sleeved shirt and long pants.
• Chemical-resistant gloves, such as barrier laminate or butyl rubber.
• Shoes plus socks.
Chemigation
Apply this product only through the following types of sprinkler irrigation: center
pivot, lateral move, end tow, side (wheel) roll, traveler, big gun, solid set, or
hand move irrigation systems. Do not apply this product through any other type
of irrigation system. Do not connect an irrigation system (including greenhouse
systems) used for pesticide application to a public water system.
Crop injury, lack of effectiveness, or illegal residues in the crop can result from
non-uniform distribution of treated water. For questions concerning calibration
consult the equipment manufacturer or your local State Extension Service rep-
resentative. A person knowledgeable of the chemigation system and responsible
for its operation, or person under the supervision of the person responsible, shall
shut the system down and make necessary adjustments should the need arise.
The system must contain a functional check valve, vacuum relief valve, and low
pressure drain appropriately located on the irrigation pipeline to prevent water
source contamination from backflow.
The pesticide injection pipeline must also contain a functional, normally closed,
solenoid-operated valve located on the intake side of the injection pump and
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