What Def. is This ?

[StickMan]

Not sure what def this is.

I do believe that it is not Nitro Def, as I'm experiencing Nitro Toxicity in other plants, notice the clawing in some of the fan leaves in these pics. Flushed a couple of Autos with it this morning. Also, all new growth is palish to yellow, either; narrow, drooping, and or mutated, or all. Could this be caused by Nitro Toxity or is it a def. Sulfur? Also worth noting, is wild temp swings growing these outside right now.
Mid to upper 80's F. during day, and 50ish at night. But, none of my other plants are showing any stress due to this.

These are pics of 3 different plants, but all same strain, growing in TLO. Did give an extremely mild drink of Molasses and Fish Emulsion, along with a weaker Foliar Feed 7 days before this started. Yea, I know classic newbie mistake, more is NOT better. I was not having def/toxity ANYdef/toxity issues until then. School of hard knocks for this knuckle head. If it ain't broke don't fix it.:thumbs:

Also you may notice the top of the plant that I am showing the most picts. of was Fimmed two days ago, so disregard that, as far as diagnosing my issue.

Thanks as always for helping this noob out.

 

[Waira]

Hi Stick! Well,... honestly, it looks exactly like what my plants did when they got over fertilized, likely w/ N,.... pale color doesn't exclude that, I don't think; the clawing is classic symptom...so is the misshapen new growth; maybe that Fish emulsion hit was a little over the edge, perhaps because your soil is still a bit hot ( I figure the cooler temps you've had may have slowed the 'digestion' down on the soil during it's cooking phase...)... same strain reacting this way also says it's a hyper-sensitivity to N; I say temps not a factor.... yeah Stick, I think it's a N 'toxicity', not bad though, so don't go nuts with the flushing (so said Muddy-san when I dealt with this), as it may just add to the trauma (unless it's a last ditch effort to save the plant... not the case here!); maybe rinse the leaves too, lose any residues... some Superthrive would be nice though, when you rinse the leaves, maybe with a 1tsp/gal conc.; otherwise, let'm be and they'll steer out of the skid..... it think! LOL!

 

[X]

Also worth noting, is wild temp swings growing these outside right now.
Mid to upper 80's F. during day, and 50ish at night. But, none of my other plants are showing any stress due to this.

Temp swings will mess with the pH, which can cause some of your issues. The thing that sticks out to me the most though, is the fact that you added concentrated ferts to your TLO. The two conflict with each other. I wouldn't do that anymore. If you want to add that stuff to your mix, I would suggest watering it in before the cook and letting it "cure" with the rest of your amendments.

This may not be anything at all... were the deformed looking leaves previously covered by big fans? I see you lst'd them. If they were covered up, they will look like this sometimes until they can get more direct light, which you seem to have addressed.

 

[StickMan]

Waira, thanks for your quick response to my latest nooby growing pains( no pun intended) I will just leave well enough alone, and just stick with plain old H20.

The thing that sticks out to me the most though, is the fact that you added concentrated ferts to your TLO. The two conflict with each other. I wouldn't do that anymore.

Hey X, you can count on the fact that I will never make that mistake again.:thumbs:

After reading everything that you have written concerning TLO and making it very clear about not needing to add anything but non buffered water during the plants life cycle I would not have even considered it. Some one else here at AFN, who has been growing and breeding with TLO soils for many years that I know we both respect, recommended adding some sort of Nitro ammendment during veg and Phos during flowering for this first run with my mix. But, I am in NO way trying to place any blame on anyone else! I should have used my own judgement, and due to the fact that the ladies were doing just fine, I should have left them alone. The fault lies ALL with me!

In your signature by Coach Saban (which is excellent by the way), I fall into the camp of learning 50% by words and 50% or more sometimes through experience. So, this is another valuable lesson learned which I will not repeat :thumbs:

This may not be anything at all... were the deformed looking leaves previously covered by big fans? I see you lst'd them. If they were covered up, they will look like this sometimes until they can get more direct light, which you seem to have addressed.

Yes, they were covered up by fan leaves, but I just felt it would be better to get them out into the light.

Thank-you for your help and prompt response, as always.

 

[X]

Some one else here at AFN, who has been growing and breeding with TLO soils for many years that I know we both respect, recommended adding some sort of Nitro ammendment during veg and Phos during flowering for this first run with my mix.

There is a difference between watering in a "tea" and watering in a concentrated nute from a bottle... An EWC or guano tea will invigorate the microbes and the minerals (nutes) feed them. When we add a good tea to TLO we are helping wake it up a bit, so to speak. You are far from the first person to find this confusing... I did at first too.

 

[Waira]

Hi X! Can I ask you, was I barking up the right tree on this? I'm always glad to help with 'diagnostics', I just want to make sure I'm not quacking out my vent hose! :smoke: Interesting about the pH shift with temps; how severe can it be with this kind of swing?

 

[JM]

excess nitro can also be mitigated to some degree with Magnesiujm... particularly a foliar feed.

:tip: Chlorophyll = 1 magnesium surrounded by 4 nitrogen.

 

[StickMan]

excess nitro can also be mitigated to some degree with Magnesium... particularly a foliar feed.

jm, what would you recommend using, Epsom Salts? If so at what ratio?

 

[StickMan]

An EWC or guano tea will invigorate the microbes and the minerals (nutes) feed them. When we add a good tea to TLO we are helping wake it up a bit, so to speak. You are far from the first person to find this confusing... I did at first too.

X
So, am I to understand you correct, that it would be advantageous to use a EWC or guano tea down the road after some recovery time has past from trying to feed them rather than just helping to invigorate the micro herd. If so what would you recommend (for veg and flower) and at what ratios. At this point I am a little gun shy to add anything, but I still must continue to learn to do what is best for the soil, and thus the plants.

 

[X]

Hi X! Can I ask you, was I barking up the right tree on this? I'm always glad to help with 'diagnostics', I just want to make sure I'm not quacking out my vent hose! :smoke:

The fact you would even ask that, speaks highly of your intentions. Let's review...

Hi Stick! Well,... honestly, it looks exactly like what my plants did when they got over fertilized, likely w/ N,.... pale color doesn't exclude that, I don't think;

True. And, as you stated, this pic in particular might show signs of a very early "N" problem (taking note of the slightly lighter edges on the fans)...

but, if it does have an issue, there are a lot of problems that look like that early. What I didn't see, was a plant that looked otherwise unhealthy in any way.

Interesting about the pH shift with temps; how severe can it be with this kind of swing?

I haven't had it affect a TLO grow. But, before I used TLO, I had a couple situations where the temps affected the pH to the point of nute-block.

Knowing about the pH and temps thing is just something I have experienced before converting to TLO. Being a TLO user (and knowing our bro stick is new at it), is what led me to say adding the concentrates would be the most likely cause of any issues. The temps mentioned would not dramatically affect the efficacy of the TLO but, adding the concentrate, could bring the pH factor/issues back into play.

You didn't do anything wrong, IMO. It didn't appear you have an in depth knowledge of TLO, which would be necessary to draw the same conclusion I did. There are very, very few of our members (including some of our most experienced growers) who have gotten their heads around the most basic concepts of TLO/supersoil organic growing. It isn't hard but the mind-set is "flipped"... I had a tough time with it too until I really started digging into it.

X
So, am I to understand you correct, that it would be advantageous to use a EWC or guano tea down the road after some recovery time has past from trying to feed them rather than just helping to invigorate the micro herd. If so what would you recommend (for veg and flower) and at what ratios. At this point I am a little gun shy to add anything, but I still must continue to learn to do what is best for the soil, and thus the plants.

I am the wrong person to ask that question. The only thing I've ever watered into my TLO is food for the existing microbes... a little molasses maybe (sugars for energy) or a little kelp (full of micro-nutrients for the microbes). But I use very weak solutions and only toward the end of the grow. I have also added humic acid if my mix starts to get a little too "thick". So, I'm a noob on the guano teas. But, there is a lot about teas by members very experienced in their use, available in the Organic Forum stickies. Mr Piggy and HeadpiECE have both made excellent contributions. Check out some of their stuff.