Indoor what part of the plant technically needs the light?

[lunarman]

I'm still a newb. Been at this for 1.5 yrs and still on a steep learning curve. But man its such a great experience. I love growing.

I have a run going now that is at day 32. I did some LST around day 25 which was great. Did some defoliation of big fan leaves that were blocking "bud sites" too. As I look at the plants now I can see more clearly where the flowers start out. Its either at a node on a stem or the top of a stem.

I don't get the part about opening up plants for light though. The sites where buds grow had little preflowers earlier and now I'm seeing white pistols. And it was these areas that I was trying to open up for light. But photosynthesis doesn't happen on the flower right? Best photosynthesis has to be on the fan leaves. So why would you work so hard to cut out leaves or tuck them so they don't block these areas? The flowers will have sugar leaves eventually. Is it those leaves that we're trying to get more light too eventually?

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I'm still a newb. Been at this for 1.5 yrs and still on a steep learning curve. But man its such a great experience. I love growing.

I have a run going now that is at day 32. I did some LST around day 25 which was great. Did some defoliation of big fan leaves that were blocking "bud sites" too. As I look at the plants now I can see more clearly where the flowers start out. Its either at a node on a stem or the top of a stem.

I don't get the part about opening up plants for light though. The sites where buds grow had little preflowers earlier and now I'm seeing white pistols. And it was these areas that I was trying to open up for light. But photosynthesis doesn't happen on the flower right? Best photosynthesis has to be on the fan leaves. So why would you work so hard to cut out leaves or tuck them so they don't block these areas? The flowers will have sugar leaves eventually. Is it those leaves that we're trying to get more light too eventually?

LST allows side branches, by way of breaking apical dominance i.e. forcing the plant's main stem below its side branches, to receive more light and air and thus more bud sites can develop into appreciable colas.

I remove excess fan leaves, old ones and massive ones, to allow light and air further into the canopy allowing better growth to occur. Defoliation isn't necessary but it helps in my opinion especially with stupidly bushy strains. My last grow was two uber bushy Northern Lights that I defoliated constantly in combination with LST and super cropping and because of the pruning and bending I had quite a few nicely sized colas.

You basically want to open the top of the canopy to allow more light penetration into the lower fan leaves. You don't prune all the fan leaves but, in my case excessively large ones or old ones usually, you leave the sugar leaves alone.

If you want, there is a link to the Northern Lights grow where I documented everything almost daily and showed super cropping and lst and pruning

Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w

 

[BII]

Yes, as Damian50 noted, opening things up, such as by LST, exposes more bud sites, results in more growth of each bud on its own stem.

But I too have never seen any scientific rationale for removing leaves to expose covered bud sites. But like most, I just do it, presuming this is best, if only based on what everyone else says/does.

This all presumes that something, presumably a gene/protein, is selectively turned on (or off) in bud tissues in response to direct exposure to light, with response presumably related to total light exposure. I know of no science supporting this (but I am far from being an expert). Do buds exposed to potent light locally secrete auxins or other bud growth factors? I doubt it. If any of this were true, I presume light companies would be citing this to no end.

I can more easily accept that it is important to let the later-formed smaller sepals and sugar leaves have maximal light exposure. But this again presumes that direct light exposure of buds is critical for optimal formation of the exposed bud and its trichomes. Again, I know of no plant physiology supporting this.

But I could also easily accept an opposite view, that removing leaves is unnecessary (beyond removing what would typically just fall, be blown off, if grown outdoors). I could easily accept that the plant will do well to max out resin production without any human plucking of leaves.

 

[lunarman]

LST allows side branches, by way of breaking apical dominance i.e. forcing the plant's main stem below its side branches, to receive more light and air and thus more bud sites can develop into appreciable colas.

I remove excess fan leaves, old ones and massive ones, to allow light and air further into the canopy allowing better growth to occur. Defoliation isn't necessary but it helps in my opinion especially with stupidly bushy strains. My last grow was two uber bushy Northern Lights that I defoliated constantly in combination with LST and super cropping and because of the pruning and bending I had quite a few nicely sized colas.

You basically want to open the top of the canopy to allow more light penetration into the lower fan leaves. You don't prune all the fan leaves but, in my case excessively large ones or old ones usually, you leave the sugar leaves alone.

If you want, there is a link to the Northern Lights grow where I documented everything almost daily and showed super cropping and lst and pruning

Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w

thank you. That link takes me to page 12. did you do that intentionally as that's the place to start reading for me? I'll read and then reply back in a while. I get what you said but want to read and see more on this.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I don't know why it jumps there lol

thank you. That link takes me to page 12. did you do that intentionally as that's the place to start reading for me? I'll read and then reply back in a while. I get what you said but want to read and see more on this.

Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w

 

[lunarman]

Yes, as Damian50 noted, opening things up, such as by LST, exposes more bud sites, results in more growth of each bud on its own stem.

But I too have never seen any scientific rationale for removing leaves to expose covered bud sites. But like most, I just do it, presuming this is best, if only based on what everyone else says/does.

This all presumes that something, presumably a gene/protein, is selectively turned on (or off) in bud tissues in response to direct exposure to light, with response presumably related to total light exposure. I know of no science supporting this (but I am far from being an expert). Do buds exposed to potent light locally secrete auxins or other bud growth factors? I doubt it. If any of this were true, I presume light companies would be citing this to no end.

I can more easily accept that it is important to let the later-formed smaller sepals and sugar leaves have maximal light exposure. But this again presumes that direct light exposure of buds is critical for optimal formation of the exposed bud and its trichomes. Again, I know of no plant physiology supporting this.

But I could also easily accept an opposite view, that removing leaves is unnecessary (beyond removing what would typically just fall, be blown off, if grown outdoors). I could easily accept that the plant will do well to max out resin production without any human plucking of leaves.

Wow. So you're not sure what is what either. I knew you were game for this conversation. I don't know your background, but I'd guess it must be science/botany. I find it hard to believe that there hasnt been studies and papers on this subject yet. How hard can it be to do some tests on plants in a lab and measure the yields and cannabinoids on plants that were left alone vs plants manipulated in different ways? In the mean time I'd following what other people are doing.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Cannabis research is heavily regulated and typically forbidden by the federal government in the U.S.at least. But I think it has to do with grow lights lacking everything that the sun has

Wow. So you're not sure what is what either. I knew you were game for this conversation. I don't know your background, but I'd guess it must be science/botany. I find it hard to believe that there hasnt been studies and papers on this subject yet. How hard can it be to do some tests on plants in a lab and measure the yields and cannabinoids on plants that were left alone vs plants manipulated in different ways? In the mean time I'd following what other people are doing.

Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w

 

[lunarman]

Cannabis research is heavily regulated and typically forbidden by the federal government in the U.S.at least. But I think it has to do with grow lights lacking everything that the sun has

Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w

But its a big world. Holland. Spain.

You mention the sun. I was thinking about that actually. I posted this on the indoors grow board because I thought it was more applicable to indoor lighting. I wonder if the big outdoor plants that I've seen pictures of were manipulated much to let in more sunlight.

 

[lunarman]

@Damien50

Had a medium fast speed read of your journal. I didn't really get much out of it directly related to my question about why and where do you open up for light. But that was a fine display of some very heavy manipulation. LST, super cropping, defol. Someone mentioned you're like an artist. Some of the early pics had me thinking ya those plant looks like a modern art sculpture and that is putting it nicely! :smoking: I was waiting to see you killed those ladies actually. I don't know the genetics you grew but they sure were throwing out bushes of vegt at you. The must have been challenging to train. I would have just let them grow natural myself because I'd be afraid of doing too much manipulation and breaking shit. I noticed the plants kept bouncing back and generating a lot of growth during veg after all the manipulation you did. I was also expecting that you'd not get any stretch height out of them but you did. And I was expecting that all that manip would mean the plants would be slow and take 100+ days but no you cut them at 85 days. I enjoyed watching the journey. Tag me on your next grow if you remember.

Edit: I have done topping and lots of LST bondage in the past but I'm in a head space where I want to do minimal manipulation now. And hopefully faster turns so I can move on to the next set of genetics I want to grow. That is more important to me that getting the highest yield or flattest canopy. But at the same I want to cut and bend where it really ads value while doing no harm. That's why I want to know about where and why to defol.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

@Damien50

Had a medium fast speed read of your journal. I didn't really get much out of it directly related to my question about why and where do you open up for light. But that was a fine display of some very heavy manipulation. LST, super cropping, defol. Someone mentioned you're like an artist. Some of the early pics had me thinking ya those plant looks like a modern art sculpture and that is putting it nicely! :smoking: I was waiting to see you killed those ladies actually. I don't know the genetics you grew but they sure were throwing out bushes of vegt at you. The must have been challenging to train. I would have just let them grow natural myself because I'd be afraid of doing too much manipulation and breaking shit. I noticed the plants kept bouncing back and generating a lot of growth during veg after all the manipulation you did. I was also expecting that you'd not get any stretch height out of them but you did. And I was expecting that all that manip would mean the plants would be slow and take 100+ days but no you cut them at 85 days. I enjoyed watching the journey. Tag me on your next grow if you remember.

Edit: I have done topping and lots of LST bondage in the past but I'm in a head space where I want to do minimal manipulation now. And hopefully faster turns so I can move on to the next set of genetics I want to grow. That is more important to me that getting the highest yield or flattest canopy. But at the same I want to cut and bend where it really ads value while doing no harm. That's why I want to know about where and why to defol.

It wasn't necessarily to address it but in a roundabout way show what defoliation might do. I pulled a good amount from two plants with the aforementioned methods but I can't 100% say defoliation played a role. I appreciate the compliments lol. The current Kush grow is in that same thread currently day 34. I'll tag you

I read on another forum that defoliation, this was supposedly scientific, of certain fan leaves aided growth. That there were older mature leaves that would go from aiding growth to needing more energy spent on them rather than buds. So the poster went on to explain that defoliating these older leaves and removing fan leaves blocking the lower canopy would create a more efficient plant causing better yield, potency, etc. The way I did it was I would remove fan leaves with dark brown stems, dense patches that were preventing penetration, and small leaves that wouldn't amount to anything.


Me vs 00 Seeds Autos CocoDTW600w