Yellow tips for the last 2 weeks

[Michael Gilmour]

Pics..... Just doesn't seem too happy

 

[BII]

....
AN stuff is "pH perfect" while in solution only, all bets are off once in the pot, just too many other strongly influencing factors going on in there.......

From prior talking with an AN rep and company hype, pH Perfect refers to nutrient bioavailability over a wide pH range, presumably in the pot (where bioavailability occurs), with AN saying pH of the mixed solution is rather irrelevant. [And we can also infer that the pH of the medium/soil isn't all that critical, presuming it's within normal bounds']. I don't recall any claims related to pH Perfect controlling or doing anything with the mixed solution pH. In fact, AN recommends against adjusting the mixed solution pH up or down (with all of this presuming use of lower ppm/salts concentration water).

 

[Waira]

pH Perfect refers to nutrient bioavailability over a wide pH range

..sure, again-- when in solution only, not so much once in the pot, hence the quotes.... *edit* --and yes, they do have pH buffering elements, or else how the hell would they buffer the pH? You need to learn to research better dude,.. just go to their web page and look at the 3 tub test they do with 3 different pH water solutions...
Besides, do you have any idea how many AN using patients roll through here with pH problems, and not just in soil? Beyond common, simply put.... What I know at the very least from 4 years of work right here in this Infirmary that once in the pot, if things go, or are already are out of range for various reasons, AN nutrients-related or not, it has limited capacity to keep those nute's protected/available when in more strongly out of range pH because the entire dynamic of ion exchange, pH balancing, microbial interactions, etc. in a complex medium like soil is worlds different from the hydro/reservoir aqueous solution environment, even soilless, where the other influencing factors are lesser or nonexistent.... clearly there's some sort of breakdown in the chemistry protecting those nutrients... Doesn't AN also recommend using low ppm water, in hydro especially, because hard water taxes this stability? There's a reason why some companies make hard water specific formulations.... The big picture of what I try to get others to understand is that just because one is using AN nutes, pH stability/nute availability isn't foolproof, it still needs to be monitored both in solution going in, and more importantly in-pot.

presumably in the pot (where bioavailability occurs)

.... that doesn't make any sense, bioavailability is basically instant once in solution... It's not like these are organic nutrients requiring breakdown and conversion to available forms, they are all ready for uptake right away....

[And we can also infer that the pH of the medium/soil isn't all that critical, presuming it's within normal bounds'].

...not sure what you're trying to say here,.... Maybe you're referring to AN's ability to keep bioavailability once in an out of range pH condition? Then from what we see here that's rather limited given the sheer number of pH issues showing up here from folks using their products.... If it's already in acceptable range, then it's not taxing the stability of the AN "buffering", is it,....
....And who said anything about adjusting the pH of the solution once mixed?

Keep in mind BII, I'm trying to not get overly technical when helping folks, particularly new growers... if you feel the urge (and you have on several occasions) to parse and quibble over some generalizations, or offer weirdly phrased or occasional dubious advise/commentary, next time spare me the aggravation,... I make no claims of being the god of diagnostics, or totally right all the time, ever, but I have been vetted by my betters here, or they wouldn't have me all this time, ay? ....And to the best of my knowledge, I haven't caused anybody's plants' demise from my trying to offer help and solutions,... If you feel you can do this difficult job better than I can, then go right ahead and petition Admin for you to take over....

So thanks for all the help. I've checked pH, it's 6.2 with all the nutes. Now he's got yellowing leaves at the bottom, only day 33.

They are also pretty small at 45cms so not sure what is going on with them

And yes it's quite hard regarding the tap water

...sure mate!.... That reading of the nutrient solution is fine, but it's not a reflection of what the actual in-pot pH is,... you need a soil pH probe for that --> hsoil:.... and if your water is confirmed to be very hard, mineral loaded, then over time, cumulatively, this can drive in-pot pH up despite what the AN can do, as mentioned above.... I'm guessing you don't have a TDS or EC meter handy? that's the most relevant bit of info about your water, but it's pH can provide some clues,... if it's high 7's to 8+, it's a potential problem,... see, if the water is mineral (CaCO3) rich, then it's very difficult for the soil and nutes to buffer down into proper range,... So, given this, the soil pH might be too high, causing lockout of Zn,... I see those symptoms have progressed,... the lowers are showing some tapping out of the leaves for N, maybe some P defc. too, some of which is normal at this stage.... If the soil is still in OK range, then likely this is still a simple lack-of type defc.'s causing most of this,.. only testing the in-pot pH can tell for sure though,.. Keep in mind different plants, strains, can have different nutrient demands and tolerances,... As for size, that's so interdependent on several factors, I can't make a call on that without knowing a detailed review of the whole grow and all the parameters invloved,...

 

[Michael Gilmour]

Thanks for the detailed info. I've ordered a soil ph probe as well. I think I've got a fair bit more research to do on soil ph, nutrients etc!

On a side note. I'm struggling to understand if this one is over or underwatered as the pot is dry and light, but for some reason it's drooping like mad!

 

[Pro-T]

Thanks for the detailed info. I've ordered a soil ph probe as well. I think I've got a fair bit more research to do on soil ph, nutrients etc!

On a side note. I'm struggling to understand if this one is over or underwatered as the pot is dry and light, but for some reason it's drooping like mad!

It’s underwatered....give it a good soaking.

 

[Pro-T]

Thanks for the detailed info. I've ordered a soil ph probe as well. I think I've got a fair bit more research to do on soil ph, nutrients etc!

On a side note. I'm struggling to understand if this one is over or underwatered as the pot is dry and light, but for some reason it's drooping like mad!

Also, check out 2nd grow in my signature.......I’d suggest making sure your ph is between 5.8 - 6.5 when watering. Get some kelp in there A.S.A.P add some to your usual nutrients and make sure your using cal mag. .......best advice I can give. A foliar spray of kelp also helps. I’m sure @Waira will slap me down if I’m wrong here.

 

[Waira]

:smoking: .. have a gawp at this attenuating bar graph, where the width of the bar represents relative availability at that pH --->

..nutes are absorbed only in very specific ionic forms, all of which are subject to chemical changes according to the surrounding pH (among other things) that may alter them into unabsorbable forms,... that's the "why" behind proper pH management! Monitoring (and adjusting if applicable) in-going pH and in-pot pH can go a long ways toward keeping pH stable and catching it before it drifts too far off, and all the troubles that can bring,...
check out the Defc. Pic Depot thread to see what those forms are, and pics of what defc./toxicity of them look like,....
Droops come from both over and under-watering, but for entirely different reasons,.. overwatering can starve roots for O2, damage or kill them,... I always recommend using a wetting agent on occasion for any medium used. This stuff helps take the surface tension out of the water/solution going in, allowing easier and more even penetration into the medium, especially those pesky dry patches that can become sorta hydrophobic,... My fav' is Coco-Wet- .... Oh, it's also critical in doing proper foliar sprays because it makes the solution cover and stick more evenly, instead of just beading up...

Also, check out 2nd grow in my signature.......I’d suggest making sure your ph is between 5.8 - 6.5 when watering. Get some kelp in there A.S.A.P add some to your usual nutrients and make sure your using cal mag. .......best advice I can give. A foliar spray of kelp also helps. I’m sure @Waira will slap me down if I’m wrong here.

--good by me mate!