Young plant has problem(s), please help

[Muddy]

(LOL! Initially, I thought Waira was a man and quickly discovered I was mistaken. Wait, what, immediately after Muddy's post, says "listen to her" with three arrows I assume pointing to Muddy's post. Could it be Muddy is a woman?? A woman who loves Muddy Waters? That would be unusual and a rare find. I feel like I'm on SNL with androgynous Pat!)

As Muddy sang, "I'm a man, spelled M... A... N". That's why I've been in love with Bonnie Raitt for years. A woman who not only loves Muddy, but can sing and play the hell out of a slide guitar. A rare one, indeed!

Because I don't disagree with EITHER Waira or Muddy (or wait, what), I'm also going to follow Muddy's advice at least as far as foliar spraying for now. Muddy, if you think I should ALSO soil feed in addition to what I fed a few hours ago, please let me know.

I would also feed some epsom salts as well as the foliar. Mag deficiency seems the most likely thing judging from your pics.

pH was fine in terms of runoff (6.52)

Spot on.

and eC was 1279.

Did you mean ppm? If so, that's a bit high for plants that age. I rarely go over 1,000 ppm on my autos.

I think I'm regressing as a grower, not good.

We all go through these things, even us more experienced growers.

Again, thanks for your guidance/recommendations.

You're welcome, anytime.

 

[Bayes]

Muddy, thanks for the reply-

Also a Raitt fan. I'm sure if we met we'd have "Something to talk about"

I always give eC in microSiemens, maybe I shouldn't and use ppm instead. In this case, ppm would be 640.

I'll start foliar spreading today, and add epsom to next feeding.

 

[Wait what?]

I was told Muddy was a woman and was a discussion about it

The advice stands wit a gender change

 

[Waira]

(LOL! Initially, I thought Waira was a man and quickly discovered I was mistaken. Wait, what, immediately after Muddy's post, says "listen to her" with three arrows I assume pointing to Muddy's post. Could it be Muddy is a woman?? A woman who loves Muddy Waters? That would be unusual and a rare find. I feel like I'm on SNL with androgynous Pat!)

-> say whaaaaahhh??!?! :roflcry: ..okay, you're gonna have to expand on that conclusion! ...you sayin' my writing isn't "manly' enough?! :ama: LOL! *** Muddy! :no: oh shit, the secret's out now! I'd say let's macho-up and arm wrestle over the diagnosis, but it looks like it'll be a bikini mud wrestling match instead!! ..Bayes, don't make us break out the neck-down shots of me and Muddy in our banana hammocks to prove our gender!! You will rend you eyes out in agony! :firedevil:
>>> Aaaanyway,... Muddy, this shot talked me out of the Mg thing, for my part at least,... the broadness of the necrotic patches, no yellowing,.....

..... even in this one, it goes light green to dead, no typical yellowing,...>

....(browning at tips/edges, that's more of a K thing, isn't it?).... but that curling, your right,...this could be one of the more anomalous symptom cases,...:dunno:...maybe something for the pic depot sticky I stared here, attempting to focus on the more atypical symptoms we see,... :smoke:
>> bayes, the top growth looks fine, and if the symptoms aren't spreading to new areas, it's a good sign,.. the more hammered leaves may croak out anyway,... as you see, diagnostics can be a tricky sometimes! Muddy is far more experienced grower than I, and there can be plenty of grey area with symptoms,... I agree, it's odd to see any defc. at this early stage, especially with that soil and those nutes! So glad you have that A8 pH meter- :thumbs:..I'm guessing the lime you put in is why the pH is as good as it is, given what we see these days with 's pH-wacked soils,...many reports of serious acidity issues! Sometimes, the slower release of lime can't keep up with demand,... Foliar is awesome, way under used IMO,... it's the fastest way into the plant, and the general technique is great for treating for pests too,... if you don't have some already, get a water spreader/wetting agent for your foliar soln.,... this stuff helps the spray coat more evenly and stick better, instead on beading up,... get tops and bottoms of leaves too-- more surface area covered= more absorbed!

 

[Wait what?]

I don't read into people's writing so much. No one is who they seem on these sites

 

[Muddy]

I always give eC in microSiemens, maybe I shouldn't and use ppm instead. In this case, ppm would be 640.

I'll start foliar spreading today, and add epsom to next feeding.

Few people use microSeimens although it's very accurate. Most in the US use ppm and in EU, the more standard EC, .1, .2, 1.0, 2.0, etc.

I was told Muddy was a woman and was a discussion about it

LOL, probably had Mossy and I confused. For several years only a few of us knew Mossy was a woman.

-> LOL! *** Muddy! :no: oh shit, the secret's out now! I'd say let's macho-up and arm wrestle over the diagnosis, but it looks like it'll be a bikini mud wrestling match instead!!

:roflcry: You crack me up sometimes Waira.

..... even in this one, it goes light green to dead, no typical yellowing,...>

....(browning at tips/edges, that's more of a K thing, isn't it?).... but that curling, your right,...this could be one of the more anomalous symptom cases,...

We usually don't see advanced cases of mag deficiencies. Most are caught and addressed early. To me it looks like it's already progressed through the yellowing stage. That, coupled with the leaf curl, is what has me thinking mag. We'll see in a few days after the foliar feeds.

 

[Bayes]

Here's the update 4 Days after my check-in at this hospital:

The second plant (not pictured) had looked sort of OK (no necrosis, but uniform pale green) and soon after my original post, she took turns for the worst suddenly. It did manage to hermie on me until put out of its misery today. IMO, multiple deficiencies did her in. Soil pH was 6.4 and was the same soil as the plant originally pictured.

The plant I was originally worried about is recuperating from P treatment. Brown mottling/necrosis stopped progressing 48 hours after treatment. Red stems appeared before P feeding kicked in ... red stems have gotten no worse since that 48 hours. Epsom, while done, did not seem to me the treatment that made the difference. (Also, there was no classical presentation (lower leaf yellowing in the interveinal spaces) of ealy stage mag deficiency at any time. No doubt in my mind that ONE of the problems was P deficiency but IMO I'm not out of the woods yet. (Waira wins the cigar or her choice of combustibles.) The plant is tiny (6"), bud stunted, with something going on with new growth and bud leaves (tip burning not due to heat, distorted bud leaves including fishhooking . Could just be the effects of P deficiency but could be boron deficiency as well though unlikely. Or could be something else ...I have difficulties when multiple things are occurring and its hard at least for me to get to a diagnosis.

Here she is at Day 26:






I think this grow is going to continue to have problems and almost gave up on her today in favor of starting a new grow. I also think the yield will be pretty poor. Although she looks over-watered, she has not been (Accurate 8).

Would you soldier on or give up on her and just start a new two plant grow??


She was in need of water/feeding and this is what I gave her:

1 tsp Grow Big
.5 tsp Tiger Bloom. (This makes 2 tsps in the last 4 days.)
1 tsp Jungle Juice Microblast

Soil pH was 6.4 runoff was 6.5 with PPM of 765.. Feed was 6.5 and ppm was 810
Comments/advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Muddy]

Hmmm, this one is a bit of a stumper. I can see in the first picture that the new growth looks to be curling down and possibly some brown tips? A feed of 810 ppm is pretty high for plants that age, especially in a OF soil mix. Generally plants in OF don't require much in the way of nutrients until after the 3rd or 4th week. At this stage I'm usually feeding at around 400 - 500 ppm in a soil less mix. So they could be overfed a bit.

Lets dig a little deeper. What are your day and night temps, as well as your relative humidity? Also, what is your water source?

 

[Bayes]

Thanks for the reply--

Temps are 76-82F Under 200W CFL. 24/7
Humidity: Currently 34%. Generally runs between 30-40% with closed windows. This is the best (highest) my humidity range has been out of four grows. I've tried raising it with wet towels, bowls of water, etc., no meaningful benefit. (I have to move a lot of air in my cabinet so RH is really ambient RH.). When the RH is higher outside, I open the window
Feed: 810 is lower than my second grow of this strain but that was with an aggressive nutes program. Normally, I wouldn't have fed 1.5 tsps of Tiger last feeding so that's a factor I suppose. Also, I'm growing in a 50-50 mix of HF and OF which moderates some of the heat of OF.

Water source is tap, left out for at least 48 hours. PPM is 51. This plant also got some spring until I realized that the water alone had 360ppm (wow!). Tap water is chlorine, not chloramine.

Here's a picture today. If you look at the bud leaves, they almost look like they've been cut in half. Its strange or at least not understood by me, in these cases brown spots/indentation appeared halfway on the leaf and made a Hour glass shape as the necrosis spread towards the central vein. Then they outer half of the leaf fell off so now I have jagged edges on maybe 10-15 leaves.






The soil originally had a pH of 5, 1.75 T gardern lime/gallon was added and watered every 4-5 days (not in cabinet) for 3-4 weeks. After getting rid of the hermie, I looked at the soil of the other plant. I did not visually see any pests/discoloration of soil in this pot and the roots looked white and unexceptional. There was nothing that jumped out at me but then again, I have no experience evaluating the health of a root system.

Thanks for stopping in. I'm real frustrated, just want to know why and whether its likely I'm going to have continual problems for the rest of the grow.

 

[Bayes]

Here's some additional detail on my feeding, essentially FDs but adjusted because of adding phosphorous and epsom.


Week 2.5: 3/4 tsp Grow Big
Week 3.0: 1/2 tsp Grow Big, 1.5 tsp of Tiger Bloom, 1/2 tsp Big Bloom (I cut FD's GB in half, TB was added)
Following day, watered in epsom solution. Began epsom foliar feeding.
Week 3.5: 1/2 tsp GB, 1 tsp TB, 1 tsp Jungle Juice MicroBlast (I increased FD's TB amount by 1/2 for a total of 2 tsp, Waira's recommendation)



The top bud (pictured) started looking like this probably 4 days ago. The buds are not developing.

Not sayin' its not nute burn, but it doesn't look like the nute burn I've seen before.

Right now the pH of soil is 6.4 (24 hours after watering).