Indoor Zambesa problem strains

[Dr. Babnik]

@zambezaseeds, nice lectures in plant physiology, but this is not a lecture hall.

Have you asked these guys how their other plants are doing? You are dealing with a group of people who did not start growing yesterday.

Why is the heritage of your plants a secret? How can experienced customers evaluate your strands, when looking for something new? They cant. Thus they deem you not serious. Only complete noobs who yet has to discover
AFN will pay for uncertain/random genetics.

 

[zambezaseeds]

@zambezaseeds, nice lectures in plant physiology, but this is not a lecture hall.

Have you asked these guys how their other plants are doing? You are dealing with a group of people who did not start growing yesterday.

Why is the heritage of your plants a secret? How can experienced customers evaluate your strands, when looking for something new? They cant. Thus they deem you not serious. Only complete noobs who yet has to discover
AFN will pay for uncertain/random genetics.

As for the plant heritage, we mentioned it in one sentence asnwer that all of the crosses are further than 3rd generation before the seeds are produced. Which means the youngest of the catalogue would be F4. We assure you that our genetics are not uncertain nor random, people sucesfully work with them around Europe without complaints, even since earlier generations. We simply shared as much information as was possible at that very moment. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask, hopefully we will be able to provide you with answer.

Before approaching the answers, we spent our time analysing each of the cases and problems separately. We do apologise if our approach is perceived as cold. Our focus is on our seeds, and our biologist has a scientific and analytical world view. There is way more to growing than the pure physical side, so again our apologies. We are working really hard to get to the bottom of this issue. We are aware some people stated having no problems with other grows, that is what gave put us to the conclusion that the whole shipment of seeds might have been jeopardized in customs or shipping process. We have never encountered complication on that scale, especially that all seeds left our headquarters in one package to be redistributed around different countries. In theory it is possible that the packaged suffered a damage as we cannot control every box.

 

[jingo]

Thanks for hanging in there with us @zambesa, maybe we can figure this out together. I for one am willing to try a future grow with seeds that are shipped through a different process, if that sounds interesting to you, I'm thinking in the fall I would give it a go.

 

[jingo]

One thing I'm thinking about the seeds, is many of the Growers would have received them in little plastic bullets the packages would have been opened. Some of us may live in areas where those seeds transported through very high humidity and perhaps deactivated the inhibitors. The embryos could have already started to leave their dormant stage about the time some of us received the seeds. That would explain some of the slow starts the we've experienced.

 

[stepside]

One thing I'm thinking about the seeds, is many of the Growers would have received them in little plastic bullets the packages would have been opened. Some of us may live in areas where those seeds transported through very high humidity and perhaps deactivated the inhibitors. The embryos could have already started to leave their dormant stage about the time some of us received the seeds. That would explain some of the slow starts the we've experienced.

When I got mine the daytime temps were -40° probly not the best thing for seeds

 

[pop22]

And this is exactly what I have been suggesting for some time now. I personally never questioned the seed it self, it makes no sense when you apply this issue across a large number of strains. Then the same logic applies to grower error, too many problems with too many strains for it to be grower error. That leaves the seeds having been damaged in transit, or prior to. Didn't take me a team of scientists to figure it out...lol!

So the real question now is, where do we go from here? Will we test for you with another batch of seed? I'd gladly do another run, I truly want to see your strains growing and happy, and to be able to give a fair evaluation.

And please take into consideration, our time is as valuable as anyone else's. We've put considerable time and effort into a failed project. That's not only disappointing, its frustrating when you've had three weeks of preparing grow spaces and waiting for sprouts but ending with nothing or sickly stunted seedlings.

Forgive us our seeming anger. Its not. However, we have have been burned by unscrupulous breeders in the past and have a wary attitude. We all want to work with you on this, but at this point, its being over analyzed. The seeds were damaged plain and simple. So lets fix this and move forward.

As for the plant heritage, we mentioned it in one sentence asnwer that all of the crosses are further than 3rd generation before the seeds are produced. Which means the youngest of the catalogue would be F4. We assure you that our genetics are not uncertain nor random, people sucesfully work with them around Europe without complaints, even since earlier generations. We simply shared as much information as was possible at that very moment. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask, hopefully we will be able to provide you with answer.

Before approaching the answers, we spent our time analysing each of the cases and problems separately. We do apologise if our approach is perceived as cold. Our focus is on our seeds, and our biologist has a scientific and analytical world view. There is way more to growing than the pure physical side, so again our apologies. We are working really hard to get to the bottom of this issue. We are aware some people stated having no problems with other grows, that is what gave put us to the conclusion that the whole shipment of seeds might have been jeopardized in customs or shipping process. We have never encountered complication on that scale, especially that all seeds left our headquarters in one package to be redistributed around different countries. In theory it is possible that the packaged suffered a damage as we cannot control every box.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

YUP! couldnt agree more. I mean I guess I could but thats like a mental disorder of something eh?!LOL he was MORE than happy to help lmfao!! more than happy?LOL! whats that. J/K like I said in my thread. 6 seeds always in same same same across the board pretty much. got one cheese. i always look to the transient methods and shipping first. I too would be happy to give you another germ run and grow test with my skunk seeds. got one cheese,so so far so good there. and Thanks again. lets all get going if thats applicable down the road.

 

[Dr. Babnik]

And this is exactly what I have been suggesting for some time now. I personally never questioned the seed it self, it makes no sense when you apply this issue across a large number of strains. Then the same logic applies to grower error, too many problems with too many strains for it to be grower error. That leaves the seeds having been damaged in transit, or prior to. Didn't take me a team of scientists to figure it out...lol!

So the real question now is, where do we go from here? Will we test for you with another batch of seed? I'd gladly do another run, I truly want to see your strains growing and happy, and to be able to give a fair evaluation.

And please take into consideration, our time is as valuable as anyone else's. We've put considerable time and effort into a failed project. That's not only disappointing, its frustrating when you've had three weeks of preparing grow spaces and waiting for sprouts but ending with nothing or sickly stunted seedlings.

Forgive us our seeming anger. Its not. However, we have have been burned by unscrupulous breeders in the past and have a wary attitude. We all want to work with you on this, but at this point, its being over analyzed. The seeds were damaged plain and simple. So lets fix this and move forward.

One thing I'm thinking about the seeds, is many of the Growers would have received them in little plastic bullets the packages would have been opened. Some of us may live in areas where those seeds transported through very high humidity and perhaps deactivated the inhibitors. The embryos could have already started to leave their dormant stage about the time some of us received the seeds. That would explain some of the slow starts the we've experienced.

The most fair would be to start the test over, using seeds from a different lot.
If the seeds was damaged in transit, a general problem has been identified.

How many times are parcels exposed to X-rays on their way from Europe to the US and at which intensity?
I have checked up on the effect of radiation on seeds. X-rays is harmless for most seeds. Actually, exposing sprouts to X-rays may increase plant size (http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/13/1/209.full.pdf) while gamma rays can induce mutations. An undocumented statement at another forum found by Google seach says that X-rays may damage the stem cells contained in the seed. That X-rays are bad is also my gut feeling.

 

[pop22]

IMO xray probably isn't the culprit, we've likely have never bought seeds that haven't been xrayed in shipment. I suspect either chemical contamination, or other radiation, say, shipped with radioactive medical supplies. Yes very tight controls are kept on things like that BUT.......as we all know Murphy's Law is always at work..
Occam's Razor says the simplest answer is usually the correct one. A bad seed batch doesn't fit at all, too many strains involved and too high of an incident rate.

The most fair would be to start the test over, using seeds from a different lot.
If the seeds was damaged in transit, a general problem has been identified.

How many times are parcels exposed to X-rays on their way from Europe to the US and at which intensity?
I have checked up on the effect of radiation on seeds. X-rays is harmless for most seeds. Actually, exposing sprouts to X-rays may increase plant size (http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/13/1/209.full.pdf) while gamma rays can induce mutations. An undocumented statement at another forum found by Google seach says that X-rays may damage the stem cells contained in the seed. That X-rays are bad is also my gut feeling.

 

[Waira]

I'm with you guys on the X-ray issue Doc B', pop22,..I've dug quite a bit now, and found nothing, even found studies where it was used to spot damaged seeds! In old testing days, some experiments used hard (read: high energy) x-rays to induce damage for testing and results,... but what the postal/Customs use is NOT hard x-rays, but "soft" x-rays,.. material density is everything in determining wavelength and exposure; what the officials are looking for is not high density stuff,.. they want resolution, and detail, and so use softer x-rays... If you hammer hard x-rays into something, the lower density materials will wash out into practically nothing! So unless we see something from a reliable credible source citing anything contrary to this, any finger pointing at x-rays is rejected,....