Are these Zn or S def symptoms?

[elcoloan]

Thanks all!
I always underfeed photos, because I use less light than I'm supposed to and usually put it too far. What I would usually do is increase EC slowly, but this auto plant (my real first auto) really caught me off guard and size exploded quite fast afer a slow start... I guess I just forgot to increase EC at some point and actually thought I was giving to much (had some N tox and burned tips that then realized were root rot). I did notice the symptoms appeared after pistils showed up and as soon as the plant was past what I considered to be too close to the light so I pulled it back from the light and increased espom salts thinking it was S def up top plus a Mg def in the bottom. It helped a bit but I then realized symptoms could rather be Zn and that I should've been increasing the base nute, not the sups. Any how, increasing the base nute seems to have worked. Will share a pic later today.
Love this forums!

 

[Waira]

I strongly believe that chasing deficiencies is a fool's errand, when all that's needed is to use the fertilizer and light correctly.

Only if you're a fool frankly, and that's a sweeping generalization which all but literally wrong dude, do you think all this work here has been a "fools errand"?? With no positive results?! Nobody is that lucky fella, sorry,... Again, you fail to address many other factors that affect nutrients and availability! To think that just feeding "correctly" is a panacea to prevent other potential problems associated with nutrients is a child's fantasy - .... things like pH can go off even in "organic" soils, TLO/LOS alike,... Right?? And what about other things like VPD? Light spectrum, etc. etc.?
Like I said, the empirical evidence against using good representative pictures along with lots of other proper info prove yours and his supposition wrong,... Believe what you want, but don't come in here and spew this nonsense you gleaned from the web...The body of counter proof to this right here is overwhelming, you just don't want to acknowledge it... Just because some leg humping book selling author with a PhD say's it so, doesn't make it so,... I make no claim that I know more than he does, I don't in fact, but that doesn't mean his sales oriented drivel about this is Dogma... I get where that guy is coming from, but it's poorly expressed at best, and at worst phrased to make sheeple buy his damn book! I don't need to be a PhD in plant physiology to do this work effectively it would seem, ay? I get "respect" here because I GET RESULTS and positive feedback, not because I'm tossing fucking darts at a board of answers and barfing up canned advise from others. I've seen you attempt to help in here many times Simplicio, and more often and not you're off base, a conversation we have had before, haven't we,... You couldn't do this job here to save your life, so go buy his book and cross your arms in sincere complacency if you want, but keep the drivel away from the folks who come in here for real help! The MO you cite as your way to grow, learn and advise is wack in my opinion... And we never see any of your grows, do we,... Occam's philosophy is applied here too, but in complex interrelated systems like diagnostics what is "simple" isn't so clear, something you'd understand better if you were doing this job as long as I have...
There is no substitute for doing one's homework before attempting a grow, T&E needs to applied intelligently as well especially for new growers...

Any fertilizer company whose fertilizer produces consistent deficiencies will quickly go out of business.

You have a company in mind, or that another hairball philosophy snippet hoarked up as wisdom? From what we see here, I figure 90+% is user error, not the nutes! The rest of the time it's using the wrong type of nutes,...

 

[Kyote]

@Waira
Jumping in for a second just to say thanks for this thread. This old dog learned a bit more today

 

[Waira]

Thanks all!
I always underfeed photos, because I use less light than I'm supposed to and usually put it too far. What I would usually do is increase EC slowly, but this auto plant (my real first auto) really caught me off guard and size exploded quite fast afer a slow start... I guess I just forgot to increase EC at some point and actually thought I was giving to much (had some N tox and burned tips that then realized were root rot). I did notice the symptoms appeared after pistils showed up and as soon as the plant was past what I considered to be too close to the light so I pulled it back from the light and increased espom salts thinking it was S def up top plus a Mg def in the bottom. It helped a bit but I then realized symptoms could rather be Zn and that I should've been increasing the base nute, not the sups. Any how, increasing the base nute seems to have worked. Will share a pic later today.
Love this forums!

Elco', pardon the dust up here, but sometimes one must take a stand against against lousy advise,...
Your gal is thriving, other than this minor hiccup, so well done in any case - ... auto's are a handful, there's no time to fix things, clock is always running against you... If you're seeing improvement with elevated feeds of MC, then that settles it,... her demands were starting to exceed inputs, hardly uncommon and far better than the other way around!
BTW, micronute defc.'s seem to be fairly common with this product, something I have brought up to GLN before. They see it too, and it's one reason why they are always tinkering with the formulation... 3-4 times now! I have asked them a while back about making a purely micronutrient supplement before, something that in dry form would be very handy and stable,... nothing so far...
I also recommend getting a PK booster, most of the folks using MC have found better buds formed with some extra P going in,.. Plenty of K, but the high N content is not the best for cannabis during bloom... Check out Dabber's grows, he's the first to realize this with GLN.... and he grows fantastic plants!

 

[Waira]

@Waira
Jumping in for a second just to say thanks for this thread. This old dog learned a bit more today

thanks Kyote! Most all of us are forever on the learning curve, and it's not always the most technical;ly well educated people who are the best growers! My favorite here is Hecno, an Aussie outback guy that is one of our very best growers, and he makes his own soil using local stuff only,.. By local, I mean digging up things like Bush Turkey nests for composted forest goodies, local worms farmed, and many other things ... he regularly pulls off 5-9oz per auto in what's almost totally water-only soil, just minor tweaks here and there,... no lab work, no special equipment, just skillz and knowledge! :smoking:

 

[Kyote]

thanks Kyote! Most all of us are forever on the learning curve, and it's not always the most technical;ly well educated people who are the best growers! My favorite here is Hecno, an Aussie outback guy that is one of our very best growers, and he makes his own soil using local stuff only,.. By local, I mean digging up things like Bush Turkey nests for composted forest goodies, local worms farmed, and many other things ... he regularly pulled off 5-9oz per auto in what's almost totally water-only soil, just minor tweaks here and there,... no lab work, no special equipment, just skillz and knowledge! :smoking:

Right? I grew photos outdoors in my own soil mix with great results with little effort. Growing indoors is a total new game, and autos are a new game too for me. They can be a bit finicky to say the least. I totally blew my first indoor auto grow. On my second grow now and so far so good. This new place we live at now has a 9 x 12 greenhouse so I'm gonna goof around in there a bit too. More to learn!

 

[elcoloan]

Elco', pardon the dust up here, but sometimes one must take a stand against against lousy advise,...
Your gal is thriving, other than this minor hiccup, so well done in any case -  ... auto's are a handful, there's no time to fix things, clock is always running against you... If you're seeing improvement with elevated feeds of MC, then that settles it,... her demands were starting to exceed inputs, hardly uncommon and far better than the other way around!
BTW, micronute defc.'s seem to be fairly common with this product, something I have brought up to GLN before. They see it too, and it's one reason why they are always tinkering with the formulation... 3-4 times now! I have asked them a while back about making a purely micronutrient supplement before, something that in dry form would be very handy and stable,...  nothing so far...
I also recommend getting a PK booster, most of the folks using MC have found better buds formed with some extra P going in,.. Plenty of K, but the high N content is not the best for cannabis during bloom... Check out Dabber's grows, he's the first to realize this with GLN.... and he grows fantastic plants!

No problem, don't mind the debate. I try to learn from all.

Now… Here are some pictures I took a few hours ago ... didn't have enough battery for flash-pics and no more sunlight either. Looking at the plant I'm not sure how much it's getting better... if it is at all... but flowers keep forming . Bottom leaves keep going lighter in a manner that would seem to be Mg def, but not as fast as before. Top leaves... I'm not sure, I feel they look better but not sure. Overall plant doesn’t look so bad.

Overall view

Top close

Bottom of the plant

Again, thanks for all the input. Will keep posted.

 

[Waira]

:smoking: She's a hearty eater mate, what do you have MC ppm's up to now? Have you looked into a PK booster? Some, like GH KoolBloom liquid (0-10-10) are nice supp's to work with that aren't super concentrated... What most folks do is reduce the MC some, and add in the PK booster, or even an regular base bloom nute which has complete nutrition by itself,.. The hitch with MC, if you reduce it to lower something like N input, you also reduce all the other nutes the plant still needs in correct proportions... Bud Explosion is their version, but it's a very simple formulation and so incomplete in balance,... it's also very K heavy, and if you use Sweet Candy as well (A nice product itself BTW) that has a ton of K in it, you risk overdosing the K!
... lower fans fading some is OK for this stage, plus she's been a bit underfed, so her "reserves" aren't very deep I'm betting,....

Right? I grew photos outdoors in my own soil mix with great results with little effort. Growing indoors is a total new game, and autos are a new game too for me. They can be a bit finicky to say the least. I totally blew my first indoor auto grow. On my second grow now and so far so good. This new place we live at now has a 9 x 12 greenhouse so I'm gonna goof around in there a bit too. More to learn!

Dude, I f'ing BBQ'ed my first auto's using my orchid food on them! .... back then, i had no tent either, just an indoor/outdoor combo with some cheap ass supplemental lighting for a few extra hours at night...
A big key is to keep them warm, even at lights out (no 50'sF in there,) especially early on and through veg'; that part you have to nail, no time to fix things... 18/6 is a popular light sched', many breeders recommend this as a minimum for best results; 20/4 is very popular,.. 24/0 is "do-able", and some strains do Ok with this, others don't, and from what I see, it very much diminishing returns on that unless you have all other typical limiting factors whipped, including CO2... Some strongly sativa-dom. cross do not like this, a few breeders recommend against it on some of their strains... I often see signs of light stress, defc. issues, bad VPD and such associated with this as well... IMO, just because you can, doesn't mean you should! Look in the Myth Buster section, there's a couple good threads there on this,... truth is, plants cannot use more than what's referred to as the maximum daylight integral, basically a total amount of photon/energy is a given day,.. Once again, more is not better! ..usually,..
You are starting in exciting times Kyote, the genetics from many breeders, big and especially some small (Night Owl Seeds, cousins to Mephisto) have superb crosses that will flatten your head as flush as any photo does! If you like exotic stuff, check out ACE Seeds (awesome all around, just now getting into autos) and the auto Zamadelica... have you smoke African strains before? woooo! some zippy trippy shit to be had, definitely not for everybody!
Lights are damn good now, LED in particular... quantum boards, COB's all showing really well, and some nice bargains out there too... A staff fav' right now is Spider Farms SF series, the 1000, good for about 3x3, is inexpensive and is testing like a champ! AutoCOB's are excellent too, that company is AFN home grown... it's wise to have more than one light source in your tent, this allows you to adjust height if needed,... often is, with different strains, stages etc.,..
....nutes = ... all kinds used here,... we have a nice looking new company called Prescription Blend being tested here now; a 6 part series that's among the most complete I've seen, all bases covered including great supp's like Si, humic fulvic, kelp, amino's/carbs... they way it's split up makes it possible to tinker with if needed, some parts great for foliars!

 

[elcoloan]

:smoking: She's a hearty eater mate, what do you have MC ppm's up to now? Have you looked into a PK booster? Some, like GH KoolBloom liquid (0-10-10) are nice supp's to work with that aren't super concentrated... What most folks do is reduce the MC some, and add in the PK booster, or even an regular base bloom nute which has complete nutrition by itself,.. The hitch with MC, if you reduce it to lower something like N input, you also reduce all the other nutes the plant still needs in correct proportions... Bud Explosion is their version, but it's a very simple formulation and so incomplete in balance,... it's also very K heavy, and if you use Sweet Candy as well (A nice product itself BTW) that has a ton of K in it, you risk overdosing the K!
... lower fans fading some is OK for this stage, plus she's been a bit underfed, so her "reserves" aren't very deep I'm betting,....

....

I certainly underfed for too long, but now MC is at 460 ppm . I do have a PK booster (Bud Explosion - Greenleaf nutrients) but was initially waiting for the deficiencies to stop to give the plant some. But someone recently mentioned having similar symptoms and having solved them by giving PK sups, so now I'm thinking of giving the PK sup in the next reservoir refill and not wait until defs are completely solved... still not sure how much BE to give... Greenleaf suggests 150 ppms.

 

[Waira]

... sounds good at 150ppm, try that and let's see how she responds,...