Indoor Atulip's Auto Adventures

[Atulip]

Alright, I got a few ideas going, just gonna post them here for now.

I want to give living organic soil a go. I've done soil before, but always around 3-5 gallon pots. I want to do 15 gallon pots, try my hand at top dressing, re planting in the same pot, etc... Been trying to do the math between mixing up some coots kit soil vs just buying build a soil light recipe locally.

Coots med kit makes 15 cu ft - $100
3cu Peat moss - $ 20
3 cu ft pumice - $141
2 cu ft rice hulls - $ 63
2 Oly Compost - $ 90
3 Wiggle Worm - $ 90
Total w/ tax - $540

Trying to find pumice locally but not having much luck. Don't wanna go with perlite... Threw in a couple bags of the Oly Mountain compost from build a soil instead of going with all wiggle worm... Can't seem to find local worm castings, and build a soil/cowoco breaks the bank at over twice/triple the price per volume.

I can take a short(ish) trip to pick up a car load of Build a Soil Light recipe. Ingredients look similar, pumice, rice hulls, peat, but BaS worm castings instead of wiggle worm and oly.

BaS Light x 15 w/ tax - $535

Either option makes enough for 8-9 x 15 true gallon pots with a little room for top dressing/cover. For top dressing/cover I was gonna splurge on a bag of CoWoCo, grab a bit of craft blend, and go with some simple straw mulch. Enough to last a few cycles. ($141 w/ tax).

Bringing my initial soil cost to $676-681. If I can stick with it, yearly costs should be under $100.

Additionally, if you've seen some of my older grows, I love wick beds/systems for watering. I'm extremely lazy/forgetfully/manic/depressive, so having some kind of automatic watering system is a must for me.

I was looking at the 4 packs of AC infinity self watering XL bases. $215 gets enough for 8 15 gallon pots, but they're a bit too large(22" wide) to cram 8 in a 57"x57" tent... So I was looking at making my own.

The 15 gallon pots I found are just a bit short of 18" wide. I searched the internet up and down and found 18" wide at the top, 16 inch at the bottom by 2.6" deep saucers. Should hold right around 2 gallons of water each. The fun part was trying to find a 2.5-3" high by 16" wide plant riser to fit inside it. I managed to find these lovely things:

2-Pack 14 Inch Plant Caddy Plant Stand with Wheels Heavy Duty Wood Rolling Round | eBay

It makes your life more convenient, rustic charcoal style, add rustic decor to your house. 【360°Lockable Wheels】 - Plant dolly with 360 °rotate & brakes,4 degree rotating heavy duty casters wheels, 2 wheels that can be locked to prevent, which also will make flower/plant pots stand stably,no...

www.ebay.com

The ability to roll inside the saucer would allow you to scoot it over just enough to refill the saucer, then scoot it back to cover it again. All that was left to add is a bit of 1/4" plant wick. Total cost of 8 custom wick self watering bases: $190 post tax


All that's left is the main grow equipment.

My space is a little shy of 5', right at 57" and I happened to find the perfect 57"x57" tent for a steal currently, $89. Need a fan filter to go in it, Vivosun 8" fan/filter kit - $175, air circulation inside, pole fans x2 - $ 50, whoops, forgot about the pots, 15g pots x 10 - $ 60.

And most importantly, the light. This is what I'm eying now:

HLG 750 Diablo ES

HLG 750 Diablo ES offers a broader spectral curve that promotes healthier plant structure and improved light absorption—especially in dense canopies. The result is optimized growth efficiency and higher quality yields, making the HLG 750 ES a powerful choice for serious commercial cultivators...

horticulturelightinggroup.com

$1150 for the main grow equipment.


For a grand total of $2016


For the record, I planned originally a budget of $1000, I'm not sure how I got here.

I've read now that the new HLG light is an introductory price, I probably won't be able to snag one for that price in time...

... So I've been working on a way to bring this all back into the original budget of a thousand dollars. As much as I like HLG... they're expensive. I was leaning towards Migro LED lights originally. The new Migro Aray line is using 301H's, isn't as blue heavy on the spectrum, and the number of diodes is similar per watt as the diablo boards. From what I understand they might not be using top bin diodes and HLG does use top bin diodes on their boards. But they're normal pricing is around $1 per watt compared to HLG's $1.35 or so(Assuming this new HLG light is going to be $999 in the future).

For equipment, I can still go with the 57"x57" tent; it's dirt cheap at $89. Since it's close to a 5'x5' I'd still get the 8" fan and filter kit for $175, $50 for 2 pole fans, $24 for 5 fabric pots. Just instead of the massive $700 light, I start with a single $250 light designed for a 2'x4'.

MIGRO ARAY 250L

The MIGRO ARAY 250L is the most efficient LED grow light for 4ft x 2ft or 1.2m x 0.6m grow spaces. Delivers high PAR intensity uniformly & controller compatible

migrolight.com

That can light up half a 57" tent at around 570ppfd. Then I can save for another 250L for the other half of the tent at a later date.

I can start with just 2 plants, rather than diving in with 8. I still want self watering bases, luckily it's just as easy to make 2 as it is to make 8 of them. $75 can make 2 self watering bases, with leftover materials for more.

For the soil: here's where I'd need to choose the Build a Soil Light recipe over mixing up coots kit soil, since I'd be starting with a smaller quantity, just enough for 2 pots(30 gallons, 4 bags), rather than building the minimum of 9cu feet of coots soil. $141 for enough soil for 2 pots, another $190 gets everything needed to cover/top dress(and cover/top dress 6 more plants in the future) for the rest of the year, bringing it to $331 for soil startup costs.

The total comes to $1036 after tax to light a 2'x4'(850ppfd) to 2.5'x4.75'(570ppfd) area. 2 more plants(4 so far) can be added for $141 in soil, and $26 to make 2 more self watering bases, which fills out half the tent, new total of $1193. Then $635 additinally is enough to add another Migro aray 250L, 4 more 15 gallon pots of dirt on self watering bases. Bringing the grand total to $1828 for 500w and an average of 570ppfd over 8 plants in a 57" x 57" tent.

Compared to the HLG, 730w, average of 990 ppfd at a total of $200 more at the introductory price, estimated at another $300 at regular price.($2016(introductory price)-$2337(estimated normal lamp price) total)

Basically if I can't snag the new HLG light at the introductory price, or on sale, I'd be paying double the price($1000 compared to $500) for my lamp for 40% more watts, 70% more ppfd. Which may not necessarily be a good thing, as the HLG with 990ppfd would be 71DLI at 20/4 compared to the Migro's 41DLI at the same hours. Electric costs would be $120 more per 8 month grow year, the HLG 750 Diablo(730w) at max power would use about $15 per month more at non summer rates for me compared to a pair of Migro aray 250L(520w). I may end up dimming the HLG to 500w the whole time anyway. This does show the increased efficiency of HLG lamps though.(+20% if my math is correct)

Another small benefit of going with the 2 Migro lamps is the ability to grow at different cycles. I can plant 4 plants, wait a month, plant 4 more, and not have height issues a single lamp might have. And do I actually need/can I actually manage 30 extra DLI(71DLI)? Do I need that increased yield? My personal consumption could probably be easily managed by a single 2'x4', but this still gives me the option to scale up for extracts and gifts.


TLDR; Migro Aray 250L looks to be a quality light, gets me growing sooner(2ish months from now as opposed to 4ish months), and saves $500 overall if I can't snag the HLG 750 Diablo ES at it's introductory or a sale price... And I may end up dimming the HLG to the same wattage anyway.

 

[Atulip]

Been reading more on no till about how bigger is better, but I want to move it around still...

One of these:

Living Soil Fabric Pot

Grassroots Living Soil Fabric Pots are a superior alternative to plastic and ceramic pots. Made from American-made geotextile, they promote airflow, prevent root binding, regulate soil temperature, and support healthier plants. With a waterproof liner and bottom aeration strip, they ensure...

grassrootsfabricpots.com

On one of these:

https://a.co/d/7iyhxmx

On one of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/24-in-x-16-in-1000-lb-capacity-solid-deck-hardwood-dolly-59309.html?gStoreCode=3481&gQT=1

Alternatively:

Two of these:

Living Soil Fabric Bed

Grassroots Living Soil Fabric Beds combine the benefits of fabric beds with innovative features to optimize plant growth. Easier to assemble, more affordable, and resistant to rot or pests compared to wooden beds, they include a waterproof liner and bottom aeration strip for improved drainage...

grassrootsfabricpots.com

On these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ProWood-3-4-in-x-2-ft-x-4-ft-Pressure-Treated-Plywood-Project-Panel-205960/205603712

On a pair of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/24-in-x-16-in-1000-lb-capacity-solid-deck-hardwood-dolly-59309.html?gStoreCode=3481&gQT=1

Option 2, the two 4x2 beds gives about 150gallons total of soil space opposed to option one. Though option 1 could be changed to a 150 gallon pot on 48" circle. Probably better/cheaper to just cut a couple circles out of a sheet of 3/4 plywood and double it over and screw it onto 2-3 of the cheap dollies.


Both give a way to get to the plants in larger volumes of soil without breaking your back bending over. But with the 2'x4' beds it's more pulling them out of the tent a bit to get to the back of them, as opposed to a single 150gallon pot, just rotating it around like a lazy susan.

 

[Atulip]

I've been researching more into no till and it seems a large bed is a better way to go. I wanted movable pots, but realistically, I won't be moving around 60lb+ 15 gallon pots much if at all. A 4'x4' bed would fit nicely in the 57" tent. At 12inch soil height out of 18" possible, the soil quantity would be the same as 8 x 15 gallon pots, with a little room to expand. Startup cost is a little higher, since I'd need all the soil at once, but overall cost for a bed is slightly lower. Leaving a little leftover budget in the end for an automated watering system like the thirsty earth ollas.


... but then there's the hassle of getting to all the plants on a 4'x4' bed, so how about:

The U-Bed™

Possibly reduce side soil space to 1.5' to increase center to 2 feet wide. Still leaves a 19Sq ft soil bed overall, with no more than a 2'x2' area to reach over for pruning/maintenance.

Main downside is this requires weird light configuration. A single standard 5'x5' light would be wasted blasting away the "walking space". So like two different 2'x4' lights plus like a single 2'x2' light for the top center would be needed to make this work well.

Secondary downside is blocking air vents in the tent...

 

[Atulip]

Back with more ramblings of a manic madman here...

I have plans for a 57" tent, so if I put 2'x4' space on each side that only leaves only 9 inches of walk space in the middle so the U-Bed™ is scrapped... or is it?

If I re-arrange my grow room completely, there's a spot that can fit a 78"x78" tent nicely, with a little room to spare even. Luckily I found a tent this size, though at double the price of our original tent($90 to $190). Now, let's get crazy, a 6.5 foot square tent with 2'x4' raised beds on the sides leaves a 2 and a half foot walk way in the center, but the lights I've chose are only good for 4 feet of length, stretching it to 6 and a half is a bit much, so I'll need something else. Luckily, Migro also makes a light designed for a 2'x2', good enough for 2.5' sq, so 3 of them added on($150 each) to our original budget of $1765 total with an original crowded grow space of 22.5sq ft($78/sq ft, brings us up to $2,315 for a relaxed 32.25 sq ft($72/ sq ft)... though there may be some additional costs/lots of DIY required for the U-Bed™...


At this point I'm honestly leaning more towards the 57" grow tent and a 150 gallon pot(45" diameter) so I can step around it a bit(should have enough room for a foot to fit in no matter where you step) with a pair of Migro 2'x4' lights. Estimated starting cost at $1009 with 1 out of 2 lights and enough dirt for 10 inches with enough top dress for a few grows. And like $1559 for 20 inches of soil and both lights. Probably won't build any kind of turntable as I'm not very crafty and I expect the pot to weigh 500 pounds or more.

 

[BII]

Consider adding some now becoming legacy but still very good lower wattage COB lights which should be available cheap used. Lower wattage COBs (usually with a single COB chip) are very compact, fairly efficient and can be easily moved around to customize lighting.

For ex., I'm using 2 AutoCOBs (55-60 watts each; having used AutoCOBs for years as my main grow light) now to similarly fill in a space around quantum boards in a new slightly larger tent. I moved to a larger tent without buying any new lights.

 

[Atulip]

Consider adding some now becoming legacy but still very good lower wattage COB lights which should be available cheap used. Lower wattage COBs (usually with a single COB chip) are very compact, fairly efficient and can be easily moved around to customize lighting.

For ex., I'm using 2 AutoCOBs (55-60 watts each; having used AutoCOBs for years as my main grow light) now to similarly fill in a space around quantum boards in a new slightly larger tent. I moved to a larger tent without buying any new lights.

Yeah, I just dumped all my cob lights(8-10 years old). Gotta be careful getting used stuff, never know how many hours have been on it. Nearly 10k hours in a year, so a 5 year old led lights could be nearing it's 50k lifespan(70% of it's original light output, 30% increased heat). My cobs were basically just heaters at this point.

 

[Atulip]

Another manic idea for the 78"x78" grow tent. Not quite the full U-Bed, but something similar. Just 3 separate 2'x4' beds, one on each side and one along the back wall. The Migro Aray 250L 2'x4' lights, one over each bed.

First benefit is startup cost and scalability. I can start with a single 2'x4' bed and light and add 2 more at a later date. Second benefit is experimentation... I can try different soils, top dresses, light intensities, etc. Third benefit is of course, ease of access just like the U-Bed classic design... No more than a 2 foot area to reach over, with a clear 2.5 foot walkway in the center. The downside is the center of the tent is wasted, and the grow area is pushed against the walls of the tent.


Let's take a look at the cost breakdown:

CORE EQUIPMENT:
78"x78"x78" grow tent - $210
Vivosun 8" fan kit - $175
Vivosun 6" clip fan x 4 - $ 95
Core Total - $480

Bed #1:
Light
Migro 250w - $250
Pot
2'x4' Grassroots +PVC - $100
Soil
9x Light recipe - $297
Bed #1 Total - $649

Bed #2:
Light
Migro 250w - $250
Pot
2'x4' Grassroots +PVC - $100
Soil
9x 3.0 recipe - $360
Bed #2 Total - $710

Bed #3:
Light
Migro 250w - $250
Pot
2'x4' Grassroots +PVC - $100
Soil
Coots kit 9cu ft - $267
Bed #3 Total - $617

Top dressing:
Straw Mulch - $ 30
Craft Blend - $ 28
CoWoCo - $ 64
Top dress Total - $122


Starting with $480 for the core and taking the cheapest bed(#3 Coots soil made with perlite and wiggleworm), $617, I can kick off the grow(8sq ft of soil surface) for around $1200 post tax, or $1330 with enough to top dress for a few grows. Add another $1200(or more depending on soil) to fill out the tent(24sq ft soil surface). The 57"x57" grow tent with a 150gallon pot would only give us about 11 sq ft of soil surface and a more cramped growing space.


Tune in next week, where I'll be planning to put a whole 10'x10' tent in a spare bedroom...

 

[Atulip]

Maybe a little less manic now... hopefully the doc won't change my meds when I go later this week... wish me luck...

Lighting has changed completely after @Delps8 mentioned the value of the Viparspectra xs1500 Pro. It's under $100 for 150w comparable to what I was looking at before, just a bit less efficient(than last years model), but at 2/3 the price per watt.



The rest of the plans have changed a bit as well. I'm still going with living organic soil... just in one single 2'x4' grassroots bed now. And I was thinking about a 5'x2.5'x6.5' tent, but live stoners talked me into the 6'x3.5'x8' for the extra breathing space and height. I plan to put 2 of the Viparspectra xs1500Pro($85 currently on amazon) in it to start, and if I think I need it or later the budget allows it, I may expand to a pair of 3'x3' lights(looking at the Migro 250s currently(250w, $229 each)). (Can you tell I really want a migro?)

I was going to stick the 2'x4' bed on a botanicare flood tray, but my local hydro store went up on their prices($150 now!)... so I'll be building a small wick bed out of 2 by 4 and pond liner for $40. I'm gonna make this a wick bed, so the whole thing is like a giant earthbox. It'll have 3 inches of depth, so 2 cu ft of perlite is needed as well, should hold around 10 gallons of water.


Well... let's do the math and see where I am on budget.

$200 - Viparspectra XS1500 Pro x2
$219 - BudBox Pro GT-1 6'x3'7"x8' Tent
$128 - Vivosun 6" Fan and filter kit
$ 47 - Vivosun clip fan x2
$100 - Grassroots 2'x4' Fabric bed + PVC needed
$ 67 - DIY pond liner wick bed filled with perlite
$231 - Build a Soil Light Recipe x 7
$ 64 - Colorado Worm Castings(free worm eggs too)
$ 30 - Straw mulch
$ 28 - Craft Blend
$ 20 - Misc (already have timers, surge protector, etc)
$1235 Total

Pretty similar to the partial budget of the larger tents. Benefits of this is no reaching over more than the 2'x4' bed(a bit more with the front gap/plant overspill), a nice 9"+ gap between the bed and the tent walls, the added 18" in height over regular tents, and a 10 gallon wick bed. Main downside is it'll block my exhaust window, so I'll have to cut a hole out of the ceiling.

 

[BII]

Regarding the unused center "Walking Space:" Could you put a bed/pots on a good quality (easily moved) platform fitting in the open area and just pull it out when you want access to all the plants?

 

[Atulip]

Regarding the unused center "Walking Space:" Could you put a bed/pots on a good quality (easily moved) platform fitting in the open area and just pull it out when you want access to all the plants?

That's a good idea. Throw a bed on a dolly contraption for pulling it in/out of the tent.