Cambodian auto

[Left]

Hello, fellow auto aficionados!

My first post here. Been lurking since the site launched. Lots of knowledge and inspiring grows on this forum!.

Until now I've only pollen chucked autos and grown cheap photos with manageable indica-leaning size.

Now I will try to breed my own Cambodian landrace auto for both keeping indoors and developing something that will succeed outdoors in my northern humid climate at 60N.

I have just started a thread on this on icm**, but I would like to share and benefit from the feedback you auto wizards can give!

My plan is breeding a Cambodian landrace with ruderalis, repeated backcrossing to minimize the rudi gene pool and also keep it as geographically pure as possible.

I have read here and elsewhere that backcrossing is a tried and tested method to shift the gene pool towards one of the parents, in my case the Cambodian mother.

I plan on selecting some of the few f2s that autoflower and backcross to the mom, then repeating this two or three times, and then breed down to full auto f3 or f4.

This way I hope the auto hybrid contains as little rudi genes as possible. I have seen several suggestions to first breed down to full auto and then repeat the whole process, but with several repetitions I though I could save time by backcrossing from f2 instead of f4.

This could save me many months..

I don't know how well this will work, and I will not have time and space to do a lot of test crossing and pheno selection, so I will just follow the procedure necessary to get an auto version of the Cambodian landrace and be content with what I end up with phenowise. Then later over the future years I can expand on the method.

I don't want to cross the cambodian photo with a modern potent auto hybrid for this very project. I guess that the modern auto is such a mix of many strains that it would leave my hybrid less pure?

My romantic idea is that crossing with only a ruderalis result in purest hybrid, even though it will leave the hybrid less potent. If there existed a cambodian ruderalis, this would be the perfect start.

Later on I will of course cross the cambodian photo or one of its offspring with a Mephisto strain, or one of the gorilla cookie bruce banner gelato skittle thin mint wedding cake autos on the market. That would leave the hybrid a lot more potent, but I wouldn't be able to consider it a Cambodian auto.

A few questions.

1 : Do you know of any good alternative to the Siberian ruderalis that I plan on using? The rudi is tall with a sativa structure, from Khalifa/rsc.

2: Is there any difference in using auto pollen from f2 compared to f3 or f4 generation? To my knowledge, auto gene-wise they are the same, provided there are only two alleles that govern the autoflowering trait.

3: Are there many differences between mexican, russian and other ruderalis strains, potency-wise? The first autos like lowryder were weak. the newer hybrids are potent. Is this because a better ruderalis is used, or is the higher potency a result of the constant crossing with other photos/auto hybrids? How much of the evolution of autos comes from better ruderalis genetics specifically?

Someone said on another forum that when the description of a new auto hybrid says for example White widow crossed with ruderalis, this often is not true. It should have said WW crossed with Magnum, or AK auto.
Thanks for your time!

 

[CanadianStorm]

I brought back some seeds from Ukraine 4 months ago, knowing what I found. Got into a lot of trouble for those seeds believe me
I might be able to answer a couple questions. The difference between the siberian and mexican ruderalis is the genetic adaptation/mutation due to the weather and differences in sunlight. For CBD content, the siberian one is the most potent.But also it's still illegal in Ukraine and Russia. Hence why I took wayyyy too many risks to get a hold of those seeds

 

[Left]

Hi, Canadianstorm.
It will be interesting to see how you will put those seeds to use, as you went through so much trouble to get them. Make your personal auto strain with them, maybe?
I guess a Siberian landrace is a better option for me than a mexican one, as I need traits that are useful in my 60 N climate outdoors.

 

[Proph]

I respect the fact that you are thinking this out a bit! That's huge. So let me share what little info I know.

Backcrossing the cambodian x rudi f2's back to the cambodian photo period mother will reintroduce the photo period gene to the f3's. You have to remember that the auto gene is recessive. That's why only 25% of the f2's will have the auto gene. Back crossing an auto back to a photo period is like doing double work. Most people who talk about backcrossing autos, are talking about using the pollen from the male auto parent, since you can't backcross to an auto female parent. If a cambodian ruderalis existed, then your dream would be crushed, lol, because then you'd be trying to make something that already exists.

Ruderalis is known for its lack of yield, potency, heavy leaf to bud ratio, small size ect.. Those are just SOME of the traits that breeders spend years breeding out of rudi. Imo, you are much better off crossing the cambodian to rudi then working it to f4, while selecting plants that have the auto gene and that resemble the mom in structure, smell, vigor ect.

 

[CanadianStorm]

Hi, Canadianstorm.
It will be interesting to see how you will put those seeds to use, as you went through so much trouble to get them. Make your personal auto strain with them, maybe?
I guess a Siberian landrace is a better option for me than a mexican one, as I need traits that are useful in my 60 N climate outdoors.

Proph is kind of right about that. Logically, if you breed an auto with a pure rudy, you will go 2 generations back. at that point, you might rebreed the first of those 2 generations with an other pure cambodian, assuming the fact that the original cambodian strain used at first is not auto. You want that perfect tweak where your cambodian is mainly dominant with the recessive traits of rudy( fast yield, CBD content , war machine in an outdoor environnement, it can take a beating and still will live lmfao.)
Just breedind a rudy and a cambodian would be the first start but I'm not sure about that first generation.You would need a second generation with a cambodian to at least make it potent. With an indica like white-lemon you would have the final tweak needed for this last generation. My 2 cents ^_^

 

[CanadianStorm]

Thats the beauty of it , you can come up with crazy species when it's well done

 

[GeorgeCloney]

You may want to have a look at this thread that we're having here >
https://www.autoflower.org/threads/ruderalis-an-unsolved-puzzle.75860/page-2#post-2236658

Just my $0.02 ok?
But having worked from home in making hybrids so far...
Once you get a decent male, ...save the pollen in the freezer!!!

I'm refering to the pollen from your male landrace.

Getting pollen is easier than producing a mother, then seeds from that plant down the road.

Back-crossing doesn't have to be back to a female plant.

If the pollen is from the original male landrace, you're good to go.

I'm gonna make this sound , like I'm talking to a child so you fully understand ( AND COMPLETELY IN FULL RESPECT,...JUST TO BE UNDERSTOOD,..OK?)

If you work with a female rudy, and mix with pollen from a male landrace,....you get a hybrid (x1).
Then becomes 2 options,..

Grow 5 male x1's to get pollen to pollenate the mom (is she still alive???)...
Or plan b,...grow 5 female x1's and pollinate from the landrace male (that you saved pollen in the freezer).

See my point.

I have pollenated,...female photos with male rudy,.....and female rudy with male photo pollen.
Female rudy with male pollen produce better offspring.

It's easier to germinate the offspring, and continue from there on.

 

[Left]

Thanks for Swift reply, Proph!
In addition to the rudi cross I will of course go the compromise route and cross my cambodian with a matching modern auto and selecting along the way for characteristics I like. I suspect I will be more happy with this cross phenowise. But I will not be as proud of this one as it is less pure in my opinion.

If you don't believe in the idea of repeatedly backcrossing f2 auto pollen to the mother, what do you think about repeating the backcrossing process after coming to f4? So far I agree with those who state this will increase the amount of genes from the mom in the final auto. It makes sense to me, and I really want to have a go at it myself, to test the method and also to do my best when making this personal strain.
When you say that backcrossing f2 auto pollen to the mother will reintroduce photo to f3, I am not sure if that necessarily needs to be the case.
I mean to use pollen from the 25% seeds in f2 that really are auto, not the ones that are heterozygous. The few offspring I see flowering in f2 under 20 hours will be true auto. I backcross this pollen to the mother and I receive a NEW f2 generation. I now select only auto flowering individuals from this generation to breed down to f4. I am positive this works, it is the standard procedure to make an auto, plus some extra steps. I hope to add more genes from the photo mother to the final f4 auto this way. But I disagree that I reintroduce the photoperiod gene to f3 as you say.

I agree that the ruderalis leaves a lot to be desired. A haze auto from La buena hierba is a wonderful alternative. I have several other promising seeds to cross the Cambodian with as well. I am sure they will give me many pleasant combos. I agree that it seems like a waste of time to use a rudi for this Cambodian auto. But the nerd in me wants to try the hard way as well. Wild thai ryder from W.O.S is more or less the same as what I try to make. Just thai in stead of cambodian. No real difference between thai and cambo. I could use that one in stead of the rudy, and save me a LOT of time. But the anal nerd in me would not accept that as a cambodian auto.

 

[CanadianStorm]

lets say you come up with a 90% cambo and a 10% rudy. if you crossbreed it back with a pure siberian, you will re-rudify this auto cambodian making it rudy dominant. I'm just not sure if you wanna keep it auto in the end or not. soon as you have auto in a name , its a ruderalis hybrid.

 

[Left]

Hi George Cloney.
Thanks for a great response! No offense taken! The simpler the language, the less misunderstandings. I see we already use different terms and definitions for things in this thread, and I am no botanist, so I am sure to be using unclear language at times. I appreciate your feedback!
I totally get you and totally agree with you, it is very wise to keep pollen from the Cambodian. I am definitely going that route as well!
I plan on doing both ways. Cambo pollen to rudi female, rudi pollen to cambo female. I hope to keep clones of the cambo mom. But she might not clone well. Revegging the mom is an option, but very time consuming.. Mom and clones may die on me, so pollen in the freezer will be very valuable.

Cambodian pollen will be used when I cross with a feminized auto, which means almost any of the commercially available potent autos. I plan to use cambo landrace pollen on the following autos only available in femmed version:
Kali mist auto(which may already have cambodian in it, according to rumour..)
Cinderella jack
Auto desfran
Fugue state
Muay thai
Tangiematic
(I also have f1 of tangiematic x erdpurt, these are regular..)

I also want to use cambodian pollen on Ace seeds Thai Chi and Dr krippling melon kali, some great photo strains of which I only have feminized seeds.

The thing is, my cambodian landrace seeds are also feminized..
So I will start with pollen from rudi initially.
Pollen from the f4 generation will be saved for later use. I wont get any pure cambodian pollen from these landrace seeds. I can't be bothered to reverse the cambodian with sts for now.
Hopefully I will get some males in some other Cambodian landrace seeds I've ordered, but not received yet. Those are regular seeds. Very old and finicky, though, so I have no germination guarantee..