Extraction Decarboxylation for optimal CBD THC levels

[Autoflower Noob]

Hey guys, I want to make cannabis infused coconut oil that has a good amount of CBD as well as THC for my father who is a recovering cancer patient. As I have discovered the decarboxylation process to activate a good amount of CBD and THC from CBDA and THCA is not that simple because CBDA takes longer and needs higher temps. to decarb than THCA. This means by the time the CBD begins to decarb, the THC has already completely decarbed and quickly starts to degrade/oxidise to CBN. Most of the decarboxylation info. online is about maximising the level of THC, but I would like to find out whether somebody has experience how to find the sweet spot for the temperature and duration of decarboxylation to maximise/optimise the THC and CBD levels of the same batch.

Of course one could first use a high THC strain and decarb it at 252 F for 27 minutes and then use a high CBD strain and decarb it separately at a higher temps and for longer time…..then just mix the two together in order to have a batch with high THC and CBD levels. But this is rather time consuming so if someone knows the sweet spot of the temp and time for decarboxylation that will result in optimal amounts of CBD and THC of a single batch then please share your experience.

 

[pop22]

You pose a good question on decarbing for CBD. Can you actually decarb CBD? Isn't it the raw form of CBD that's Medicinal?

I've used the 252F /27minutes decarb since finding that chart and I make some REALLY potent oil. I cook it in a double boiler and use a candy thermometer to keep the temp while cooking at 190F for two hours.

Most people way over cook their oil.

Hey guys, I want to make cannabis infused coconut oil that has a good amount of CBD as well as THC for my father who is a recovering cancer patient. As I have discovered the decarboxylation process to activate a good amount of CBD and THC from CBDA and THCA is not that simple because CBDA takes longer and needs higher temps. to decarb than THCA. This means by the time the CBD begins to decarb, the THC has already completely decarbed and quickly starts to degrade/oxidise to CBN. Most of the decarboxylation info. online is about maximising the level of THC, but I would like to find out whether somebody has experience how to find the sweet spot for the temperature and duration of decarboxylation to maximise/optimise the THC and CBD levels of the same batch.

View attachment 510368

Of course one could first use a high THC strain and decarb it at 252 F for 27 minutes and then use a high CBD strain and decarb it separately at a higher temps and for longer time…..then just mix the two together in order to have a batch with high THC and CBD levels. But this is rather time consuming so if someone knows the sweet spot of the temp and time for decarboxylation that will result in optimal amounts of CBD and THC of a single batch then please share your experience.

 

[Autoflower Noob]

You pose a good question on decarbing for CBD. Can you actually decarb CBD? Isn't it the raw form of CBD that's Medicinal?

I've used the 252F /27minutes decarb since finding that chart and I make some REALLY potent oil. I cook it in a double boiler and use a candy thermometer to keep the temp while cooking at 190F for two hours.

Most people way over cook their oil.

Apparently, in order to get the most medicinal value out of your CBDA and THCA, you will have to decarb it at:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.html

Chemovar producing primarily CBD is 1 hour at 120° C. or 0.5 hour at 140° C.

Chemovar producing primarily THC to minimise CBN formation, is 1 to 2 hours at 105° C. or 1 hour at 120° C.



Some sources say that consuming cannabis that is not decarbed will still give you some medicinal benefits of THCA and CBDA but it’s a waste because 90% of the undecarbed cannabis just goes through your system without much beneficial medical effects. Decarbing, on the other hand, releases the most medicinal potential of the cannabiscannabis because the cannabinoids are able to bind to the CB1 and CB2 receptors throughout your whole body.



Other sources say that decarbing might be counterproductive because this process will destroy the terpenes. The terpenes play a big role in unfolding the full medical potential of the cannabis.

There is a lot of conflicting info and I think you just have to find the sweet spot foir yourself in order to obtain the most medical value.



When I will make cannabis-infused coconut oil, I will decarb 2 ounces of cannabis to convert THCA and CBDA into active THC and CBD. I will also take half an ounce of undecarbed cannabis that still has THCA, CBDA and all of the terpenes intact and I will mix everything together (decarbed & undecarbed weed) in a crockpot with coconut oil and coock it on low heat 70° C for 3 hours. This will give the best of two worlds, without missing out on the effects of decarbed and undecarbed medicinal benefits.

 

[pop22]

Decarb in the oven in a turkey bag. It will keep the vaporized terpenes in. Allow in to cool in the bag so the material can re-absorb the terpenes

Apparently, in order to get the most medicinal value out of your CBDA and THCA, you will have to decarb it at:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.html

Chemovar producing primarily CBD is 1 hour at 120° C. or 0.5 hour at 140° C.

Chemovar producing primarily THC to minimise CBN formation, is 1 to 2 hours at 105° C. or 1 hour at 120° C.



Some sources say that consuming cannabis that is not decarbed will still give you some medicinal benefits of THCA and CBDA but it’s a waste because 90% of the undecarbed cannabis just goes through your system without much beneficial medical effects. Decarbing, on the other hand, releases the most medicinal potential of the cannabiscannabis because the cannabinoids are able to bind to the CB1 and CB2 receptors throughout your whole body.



Other sources say that decarbing might be counterproductive because this process will destroy the terpenes. The terpenes play a big role in unfolding the full medical potential of the cannabis.

There is a lot of conflicting info and I think you just have to find the sweet spot foir yourself in order to obtain the most medical value.



When I will make cannabis-infused coconut oil, I will decarb 2 ounces of cannabis to convert THCA and CBDA into active THC and CBD. I will also take half an ounce of undecarbed cannabis that still has THCA, CBDA and all of the terpenes intact and I will mix everything together (decarbed & undecarbed weed) in a crockpot with coconut oil and coock it on low heat 70° C for 3 hours. This will give the best of two worlds, without missing out on the effects of decarbed and undecarbed medicinal benefits.

 

[pop22]

here's a chart I found. It shows that decarb rate for CBDA follow that of THCA closely. It also indicates that the gains from cooking longer are not worth the time or effort for a 0.07% gain.
I feel that seems to fit with the oil I make. I use the 252F for 27 minutes method and I get very potent oil. I cook my oil now, no more than 2 hours at no more than 200F, and try to keep it at 190F. I won't use crockpots as they all tend to run very hot. Also, contrary to what people think, there is no "low" setting. Low just takes longer to reach the same operating temp.

I use a conventional double boiler. I place the oil bathed material in a small, round pyrex dish. I place that dish in the upper pot in a bath of water 1-1.5" deep. By using a candy thermometer, I can regulate the temp even on an electric stove. You also should stir every 15 minutes to break the boundary layer and keep the extraction process active.
I've been making oil for cooking and capsules for almost 2 years now. I make a LOT of oil! I've developed my oil to the point that I dilute the oil by adding 25-30% more oil near the end of the cook. Even then, my current recipe will get us very stoned!
Wish I could have mine tested for THC/CBD content.


Good to see someone else looking for the most technically accurate way to make oil. Its not only the right way, its the only way to get some level of consistency!

 

[Autoflower Noob]

here's a chart I found. It shows that decarb rate for CBDA follow that of THCA closely. It also indicates that the gains from cooking longer are not worth the time or effort for a 0.07% gain.
I feel that seems to fit with the oil I make. I use the 252F for 27 minutes method and I get very potent oil. I cook my oil now, no more than 2 hours at no more than 200F, and try to keep it at 190F. I won't use crockpots as they all tend to run very hot. Also, contrary to what people think, there is no "low" setting. Low just takes longer to reach the same operating temp.

I use a conventional double boiler. I place the oil bathed material in a small, round pyrex dish. I place that dish in the upper pot in a bath of water 1-1.5" deep. By using a candy thermometer, I can regulate the temp even on an electric stove. You also should stir every 15 minutes to break the boundary layer and keep the extraction process active.
I've been making oil for cooking and capsules for almost 2 years now. I make a LOT of oil! I've developed my oil to the point that I dilute the oil by adding 25-30% more oil near the end of the cook. Even then, my current recipe will get us very stoned!
Wish I could have mine tested for THC/CBD content.


Good to see someone else looking for the most technically accurate way to make oil. Its not only the right way, its the only way to get some level of consistency!




View attachment 515442

Thanks a LOT for all the useful info mate...I really appreciate the quality advice from an experienced canna cook
I'm gonna try to make my first ever batch of canna infused coconut oil soon and want to gather some info to ensure that my first attempt will be successful and not a waste of material.

I have 5 questions for you mate.

Before you start to decarb @ 252F for 27 minutes, is your cannabis very dry and grinded very fine or is the cannabis at a normal humidity level of 60 - 65% and grinded just a bit?

How much cannabis should I use to have some good medical effects? I was thinking 2 ounce of bud for 42 ounce of coconut oil, so around 5% bud to coconut ratio

Are you using coconut oil?

Do you add a bit of water to your oil when you cook your cannabis for 2 hours at 190 F, or is it unnecessary?

Do you add some lecitin into your oil to make it more potent, or is it unnecessary?

Cheers

 

[pop22]

After much digging, I found the source of that chart, an in depth scientific study was used to determine the data in the chart. So here we have finally, a science based guideline pretty well corroborates the chart at the beginning of your post. And I suspected that when I first saw that graph and used that as my guideline for decarbing almost as long as I've cooked oil.

You could probably finesse technique to actually squeeze a bit more THC/CBD from material. I think gains could be made by pre-heating the dish filled with the measured oil, then adding the plant material when the dish/oil reached 250 ( unless you have a REAL accurate oven.. ). I start by removing the dish of oil and plant matter at maybe 25 minutes to allow it to cool to the temperature of the water bath, about 190F, as the canna is still decarbing rapidly until cooled. Or pre-heat the oven and the pan to bake the plant material on, so that the temperature of the material will rise faster. Use an oven thermometer, they are usually much more accurate than the oven settings.

Here is the link to the study the data was extracted from:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7344736.html

 

[pop22]

I use material I dry a bit first. I never grind it as it make it impossible to filter out all the plant matter. Currently, this is my process:

I cook in a small, pyrex bowl that will hold about 2 cups of oil if filled. I fill the bowl about 2/3 full of material. I pour that onto a cookie sheet and spread it out. I use an oven thermometer and preheat my oven to 250F. I bake for 25 minutes. I stop short of the recommended time as I'm allowing for the material to be hot enough to continue decarbing after removed from the oven. ( I may be being too fussy, don't know).

I crush the material with a fork, gently, just to break it up, not powder it. I add a teaspoon of lecithin to it now. I place it in the bowl and cover with coconut oil. ( I sometimes use olive oil, it works fine too, but some caps don't like it ). I let it soak in then add just enough oil to cover the plant material slightly. Next batch I'll measure and post that info. I've just made so much I can do it by eye lol!

I place the bowl in the top of the double boiler. I clip the candy thermometer to the side of the pot. As the temp rises in the water bath to near 190F I turn down the heat to a low setting, about like you would for simmering. You'll find its easy to get a steady 190F.

I cook for 2 hours string every 15 minutes. I put a coffee filter inside a large mesh strainer, then a smaller strainer inside the coffee filter. ( the large one's only purpose is to hold the filter ). Strain while hot! It will strain faster. You can cover the dish and it will keep refrigerated for months. I warm it in a waterbath to liquify when I make capsules.

I also make what I call doubled Cooked Oil. I take a batch of cooked oil and our it over a decarbed batch of plant matter equal to the amount of oil I have and cook as usual! ONE capsule will kick your ass! Wooooooooooo! A newb would likely be knock out cold by those caps!

And I didn't mean to steal your thread! Just wanted to share with you and everyone what I know.

There are a hundred different "recommendations" on decarbing. Then there is the right way...... which is what we are striving for! Hopefully, we can help others make the best oil they can make and know the proper way to decarb.

So, again, I use roughly equal amounts of bud and oil. slightly more oil as you need it soaked in then covered in oil to cook correctly.

Regards,
pop

Thanks a LOT for all the useful info mate...I really appreciate the quality advice from an experienced canna cook
I'm gonna try to make my first ever batch of canna infused coconut oil soon and want to gather some info to ensure that my first attempt will be successful and not a waste of material.

I have 5 questions for you mate.

Before you start to decarb @ 252F for 27 minutes, is your cannabis very dry and grinded very fine or is the cannabis at a normal humidity level of 60 - 65% and grinded just a bit?

How much cannabis should I use to have some good medical effects? I was thinking 2 ounce of bud for 42 ounce of coconut oil, so around 5% bud to coconut ratio

Are you using coconut oil?

Do you add a bit of water to your oil when you cook your cannabis for 2 hours at 190 F, or is it unnecessary?

Do you add some lecitin into your oil to make it more potent, or is it unnecessary?

Cheers

 

[Autoflower Noob]

I use material I dry a bit first. I never grind it as it make it impossible to filter out all the plant matter. Currently, this is my process:

I cook in a small, pyrex bowl that will hold about 2 cups of oil if filled. I fill the bowl about 2/3 full of material. I pour that onto a cookie sheet and spread it out. I use an oven thermometer and preheat my oven to 250F. I bake for 25 minutes. I stop short of the recommended time as I'm allowing for the material to be hot enough to continue decarbing after removed from the oven. ( I may be being too fussy, don't know).

I crush the material with a fork, gently, just to break it up, not powder it. I add a teaspoon of lecithin to it now. I place it in the bowl and cover with coconut oil. ( I sometimes use olive oil, it works fine too, but some caps don't like it ). I let it soak in then add just enough oil to cover the plant material slightly. Next batch I'll measure and post that info. I've just made so much I can do it by eye lol!

I place the bowl in the top of the double boiler. I clip the candy thermometer to the side of the pot. As the temp rises in the water bath to near 190F I turn down the heat to a low setting, about like you would for simmering. You'll find its easy to get a steady 190F.

I cook for 2 hours string every 15 minutes. I put a coffee filter inside a large mesh strainer, then a smaller strainer inside the coffee filter. ( the large one's only purpose is to hold the filter ). Strain while hot! It will strain faster. You can cover the dish and it will keep refrigerated for months. I warm it in a waterbath to liquify when I make capsules.

I also make what I call doubled Cooked Oil. I take a batch of cooked oil and our it over a decarbed batch of plant matter equal to the amount of oil I have and cook as usual! ONE capsule will kick your ass! Wooooooooooo! A newb would likely be knock out cold by those caps!

And I didn't mean to steal your thread! Just wanted to share with you and everyone what I know.

There are a hundred different "recommendations" on decarbing. Then there is the right way...... which is what we are striving for! Hopefully, we can help others make the best oil they can make and know the proper way to decarb.

So, again, I use roughly equal amounts of bud and oil. slightly more oil as you need it soaked in then covered in oil to cook correctly.

Regards,
pop

Thanks sooo much for all the info mate... you did not steal my thread, you just added so much value and expertise to it that will help me and others to get the most medicinal value out of the canna oil

 

[pop22]

I forgot to add, I use size 00 caps. For the double cooked you can use size 0 caps. Another thing, all solvents have a saturation point. I don't know what it is, but I suspect you could cook a third time with maybe half the amount of plant matter. I figure that would give a dose close to that of a dose of RSO. However, the double cooked is very potent. I had to cut the most recent batch with 25% more oil, and even then it STONES you......lol!

My lady has MS and we have been slowly working her up to this dosage. Right now she's taking them three times a day. When she builds some tolerance, I'll go to full strength double cooked. I use only bud in the double cooked medicine. I believe that the triple cooked, and maybe the double cooked, using a higher dosage, might be good for cancer patients.