Deficiency or burn?

[DTOM420]

... well, there's what what's likely best to do, and what possible,... younger plants for sure, get them on lower ppm water ASAP; bigger plants are loaded, a flush wouldn't be a bad idea,.. testing the run-off would be wise too, just to see how badly loaded the soil has become... as long as the soil is in this state, nute will hard for the plant to pick up for reasons already explained,... giving the filtered water only doens't remove the crap ions that are there, not being utilized by the plant but still interfering,... next watering, try this; use low ppm water, and water until you get about 20% run-off... this will saturate the pot, but if you flush, that's going to happen anyway... flushing needs about 2-3x the pot volume, put though fast as possible to limit the smothering (O2 deprivation) of the roots,... Anywa, collect it in a clean saucer or something, and test it, pH too just for shits and giggles,.....

Ok. I did as you asked....sort of. Lol. I didn’t have anything big enough to put my bags in to water to 20% excess; but I did run them to as much excess as their slightly larger saucer would hold. I used low ppm RO water that was store bought. I measured the pH and it was 6.5. Hold onto your hat on the ppms. Are you sitting down? ......8850ppms! Yikes!

My RO system should be arriving today. Hopefully I’ll get it up and running over the next few days. I have a Dr. appointment in the big city so I’ll be making a 3.5 hr trip to the nearest grow shop. I’m going to get some new Pro-Mix (since I can’t find bio-bizz around here) and a new bale of peat and I’m going to mix up some new soil for a new run of autos - to see if things turn around for me.

 

[DTOM420]

@Waira if you get a chance, check my reply above. I know you’re busy, mate; so whenever you can.

 

[Waira]

f*ck me running, jumpin', lootin' and shootin'!!.... I don't think my TDS even goes that high- I'm stunned mate, at that level I'd expect nothing but smoking husks in the pots ...
well bright side, now we know WTF has been FUBAR .... do what you can to limp them home Tom, flush them if you can,... if you have jugs, and can find a self-fill drinking water unit, or fill a kiddie pool up in a truck ....
....forget the peat bale, if you're going to go soilless Promix, stay with that only... it does have a few other things in it to keep pH buffered, plus better performance all around,... if you can, pick up some wetting agent, humic fulvic, Si supplement, micronutrient supplement, inoculant,... uhhh $pend your money for you why don't I? At least the wetting agent and Si, inoculant too unless you can mail order for less $$,.... the wetting agent is very handy stuff for any foliar applications, helping moisten that peat up evenly,.. it takes the surface tension out of the solution so it penetrates far better, and foliar use makes it coat and stick instead of beading up,... If you can't, then a mild castille soap with no fragrance will do in a pinch,... micro' supp' is one of those things you may need, may not, but if you do and don't have it, you're hurting for certain... micronutes play huge roles in the cellular machinery, and even though only small amounts are needed, if they are short you're jamming up productions,... humic-fulvic helps in several ways, read up on them in the Reference section, they play very well with the micronutes.....(chelation) ....
What base nutes are you planning to run?

 

[DTOM420]

f*ck me running, jumpin', lootin' and shootin'!!.... I don't think my TDS even goes that high- I'm stunned mate, at that level I'd expect nothing but smoking husks in the pots ...
well bright side, now we know WTF has been FUBAR .... do what you can to limp them home Tom, flush them if you can,... if you have jugs, and can find a self-fill drinking water unit, or fill a kiddie pool up in a truck ....
....forget the peat bale, if you're going to go soilless Promix, stay with that only... it does have a few other things in it to keep pH buffered, plus better performance all around,... if you can, pick up some wetting agent, humic fulvic, Si supplement, micronutrient supplement, inoculant,... uhhh $pend your money for you why don't I? At least the wetting agent and Si, inoculant too unless you can mail order for less $$,.... the wetting agent is very handy stuff for any foliar applications, helping moisten that peat up evenly,.. it takes the surface tension out of the solution so it penetrates far better, and foliar use makes it coat and stick instead of beading up,... If you can't, then a mild castille soap with no fragrance will do in a pinch,... micro' supp' is one of those things you may need, may not, but if you do and don't have it, you're hurting for certain... micronutes play huge roles in the cellular machinery, and even though only small amounts are needed, if they are short you're jamming up productions,... humic-fulvic helps in several ways, read up on them in the Reference section, they play very well with the micronutes.....(chelation) ....
What base nutes are you planning to run?

I was going to ask you about the nutes. I’ve got a ton of MegaCrop - I got a great deal on a big 20lb bag. And I have some nutes laying around but I’m not a fan any more and there are too many bottles to buy/use. I was thinking about trying to order some BioBizz if you don’t think the MC is any good. I know 912GreenSkell uses MC with great success and I got it mainly for my outdoor soil grows where he’s kinda my idol. Lol! I’m open to your suggestions, though. I’d prefer organic.

I got my RO filter going and it’s dropped my TDS to the 180 range and the company said I’ll likely see a further small drop in TDS as the membranes get fully saturated. My TDS is so high, though, that it exceeds the system capacity and it may not be possible to get below 100 with any system. 180 is workable, though.......and I can drink my own water now!!!! YAY! Lol!

I didn’t get your reply in time so I got a bag of ProMix BX, a bag of Roots Organic soil and a bale of Lambert peat. I want to try Pro-Mix only, Roots Organic only and I want to try the Clackamas Coot mix. I really like organic soil grown flower.

Planning to get some Optic Foliar, as you suggested but what wetting agent do you recommend? I’ve been using some liquid Castillo soap.

I have MicroBlast for supplementing micro nutes and I’m going to top dress with some Leonardite product that has humic-fulvic:

 

[Waira]

... is it a whole house system, and do you any filtering at all for incoming water? Even a sediment and carbon filter on well-direct water will help reduce the garbage, and really help the RO improve,.. to be still getting 180ppm is insane,.. what system/company is this?
IMO, MC is great for veg, but it need serious help for bloom, way too much N... look around, and you'll see most are using a PK booster and reducing the MC inputs during bloom,...
Roots is good to go, don't blend anything into it,... Promix is soilless, nearly inert, no nutrition in there, so you'll have to start feeding right away at much reduced dosage (1/4)... the other soil, is likely fine too, but I'd still run a slurry test or pH probe before using it,....
..lots of choices for wetting agents, just depend where you are,.. Coco-Wet is what I use here in USA... don't spend big $$ on AN Wet Betty, that is a total rip-off,.... no scent castille is OK in a pinch,....
I'd use a water suspension on that h-f stuff, not a top dress,.. usually it'd be mixed into the soil ahead of time, and top dress is OK, just not as fast and even in distribution,.... note the dosage, it conc. stuff! 1T/ small plant, not sure what they mean, but I'd start with 1T/gal water, or a couple sprinkled on top at most.... mix up a water batch and see how black it gets. I have no idea what that stuff is like,.. the h-f I use is a powder super conc., 1/4tsp/gal turns the water into deep tea! With h-f, a little goes a long way, once a week at most.....

 

[DTOM420]

... is it a whole house system, and do you any filtering at all for incoming water? Even a sediment and carbon filter on well-direct water will help reduce the garbage, and really help the RO improve,.. to be still getting 180ppm is insane,.. what system/company is this?

IMO, MC is great for veg, but it need serious help for bloom, way too much N... look around, and you'll see most are using a PK booster and reducing the MC inputs during bloom,...

Roots is good to go, don't blend anything into it,... Promix is soilless, nearly inert, no nutrition in there, so you'll have to start feeding right away at much reduced dosage (1/4)... the other soil, is likely fine too, but I'd still run a slurry test or pH probe before using it,....

..lots of choices for wetting agents, just depend where you are,.. Coco-Wet is what I use here in USA... don't spend big $$ on AN Wet Betty, that is a total rip-off,.... no scent castille is OK in a pinch,....

I'd use a water suspension on that h-f stuff, not a top dress,.. usually it'd be mixed into the soil ahead of time, and top dress is OK, just not as fast and even in distribution,.... note the dosage, it conc. stuff! 1T/ small plant, not sure what they mean, but I'd start with 1T/gal water, or a couple sprinkled on top at most.... mix up a water batch and see how black it gets. I have no idea what that stuff is like,.. the h-f I use is a powder super conc., 1/4tsp/gal turns the water into deep tea! With h-f, a little goes a long way, once a week at most.....

Sorry I didn’t see this earlier, @Waira !! It’s been very busy at work.

So, my numbers have improved on the RO system. FWIW - it’s a Hydro-Logic Stealth 300 RO system. It uses a sediment filter followed by a Carbon (KDF) filter followed by TWO RO membranes. They told me the system is only rated to a max of 500ppm water; so I would not get as low as I would with water that started out at >500ppm. But, they said that over the first 50 gallons of water I filtered the membrane would bogey fully saturated and would gradually improve some. So, last night I checked and my water is 118-120ppm out of the system. So, that’s a further 33% improvement.

The plants are looking better but it’s a slow process. I watered until I had enough runoff that it almost over-filled my pot saucers (same thing I did last time) and while the runoff ppm was still outrageously high (5600ppm) it’s a 35% reduction since the last runoff ppm reading just a week ago.

The leaves are getting more uniform in color (instead of that two-tone coloration they had) and they’re darkening up slightly. So, I’m taking that as a good sign!

I’m considering buying the stuff to set up a 2nd tent - to have a veg tent and a flower tent. Mainly, because I want to mix up some new soil and start another run with a perfect Coots mix soil with biochar and a veg spectrum LED light instead of the 3000k quantum board I’m currently using. I don’t want to toss these plants so I flipped them to 12/12 last night and, if I can afford another tent, I could start a new cycle as soon as the soil has had a chance to cure. It’d be nice to be able to have a perpetual grow that way. We’ll see.

Hopefully, I’m on the road to recovery. What do YOU think @Waira?

I’ll try to get some pix when I get home.

 

[DTOM420]

Here’s a series of pix from before diagnosis of my water issue through yesterday. They’re on a photo plant in the tent, not the 2 autos I originally posted in this thread. I’m not sure how well the improvement shows in the pix but it’s definitely getting better. Although, I have a long way to go. Read my numbers in my post just above. The runoff is 35% better but still crazy out of whack. That’s ok though because I’m seeing inprovement finally, which means we’ve correctly identified the issue and I’m doing the right things to get back on track. Thanks to everyone and especially @Waira !!

These pictures were all taken under 3000k LEDs so they’re even yellower than reality.

Here’s back when it first started and got bad:

Here’s right before diagnosis when I had thrown a dose of Mega Crop at it in unfiltered water and sprayed with MicroBlast.

Here’s after some store bought RO water only

Here’s after some of my filtered well water and no nutes

Question: I need to get that runoff ppm reading way way down still so I’ve just been watering, so as to try and flush as much of the buildup (from the unknown TDS in my well water) as I can from the soil. But, I feel like she could use some food. Should I give her a dose of MC in the filtered water and not worry about the additional input; or, should I stick with the plain water and maybe do a MicroBlast & 1/4 strength MC feeding? Or, should I top dress her with a good batch of we’ll amended soil? I have about 2” to the top of the bag.

Thanks everyone!!

 

[Natsu]

Glad to hear things are improving. What I would do to flush them is take them out of the tent, and support them with a couple lengths of wood or something over a large bucket, or Rubbermaid tote bucket, then flush them out like that. You could collect a sample at the end of your flush to test the ppm and see if you're happy with it or if you want to bring it down more. Once you're happy with the ppm of the run off, I would give them a dose of nutrients as the final part of the flush. I would use whatever strength I was feeding them before. It might be best to do it a little bit lighter, but I would just use whatever I was feeding before. I would also go with liquid nutrients over dry amendments so the plant can uptake them right away. For the flush I would start with 2x - 3x the pot volume, then go from there. Plus whatever the volume of nutrient solution you usually give them when you done with the flush. You could do this outside too and put them on a table or something like that so the water can run freely from the bottom of the pot.

 

[Waira]

...yeah, I see some correction starting! ... Are you doing the foliar sprays with the EJM? ...that's the fastest way in, and it bypasses the root system and all the associated troubles with it,...Sure she need proper nutes, balanced, but as long as the soil is overloaded, and out of balance for nutes as well, it's going to be difficult to affect improvements,.... As mentioned by Natsu, a proper flush starts with 2-3x pot volume, with the last pour containing about 1/4 str. nute solution,... during the flush, every gal. or so check the run-off ppm's and pH.... that will tell you when to quite flushing; this has to be done quickly too, since you are in effect water-logging the soil and smothering the roots (O2 starvation), so about 20 min is recommended max.,....

 

[DTOM420]

@Natsu & @Waira Thanks so much! I’ll see if I can find a tote to do that with - the flush y’all described, I mean. Ive been foliar feeding the MicroBlast once a week. Should I do it more often?

I’m going to order some optic foliar today!

Gotta run, UPS just showed up with some goodies!