Franks Living Soil SIPS

[Waira]

I'd be curious to see what @Waira says

...gotta shove off to the salt mine here just now, but there are some things to keep in mind for sure... KIS Tad here touched on some of them, and in the video two things critical to the topic are missing: water source and an EC/TDS reading (S!) - LOL ... pH alone isn't enough, IMO the answer can't be properly given w/o that vital info...

-- example: pH 8.4... could be super hard high ppm water which is bad, period... Or if it was RO/DI/super low ppm water with a dash of pH up in it, that too could measure at the same pH but with WORLDS of difference in consequences/effects, etc.,...
It's mineral CaCO3 that's the potential villain here.
....BBL

 

[Dab]

...gotta shove off to the salt mine here just now, but there are some things to keep in mind for sure... KIS Tad here touched on some of them, and in the video two things critical to the topic are missing: water source and an EC/TDS reading (S!) - LOL ... pH alone isn't enough, IMO the answer can't be properly given w/o that vital info...

-- example: pH 8.4... could be super hard high ppm water which is bad, period... Or if it was RO/DI/super low ppm water with a dash of pH up in it, that too could measure at the same pH but with WORLDS of difference in consequences/effects, etc.,...
It's mineral CaCO3 that's the potential villain here.
....BBL

Oh boy I'm already in over my head feel like I know all that but then get new or conflicting information and still never know what is "right". I know for me and I think Frank we want to keep it as simple as possible growing TLS with high ppm water least mine is I think Franks is too. Should we use RO pure? ph no ph? or mix some tap to 50-100ppm then ph? I've also done it where I use pure RO water with just a little water soluble gypsum and epsom to bring the RO up to 50-100ppm that way. For that almost seemed the best and easiest cause it also came out to good ph 6.3. But then I worried I was adding stuff to the soil that wasn't needed and hurting my self in the long run.





I know my tap is high ppm high alkalinity high ph 350-400ppm 8.4 ph believe it full of calcium carbonate


Hopefully I didn't send your thread too far off course @Frankthetank

 

[Frankthetank]

Hopefully I didn't send your thread too far off course @Frankthetank

Well….. you all are overly complicating this.

I’m using the ro. I’m not positive the folks above even realize what the original question (not my question) was….

 

[Frankthetank]

 

[Dab]

Well….. you all are overly complicating this.

I’m using the ro. I’m not positive the folks above even realize what the original question (not my question) was….

Yeah I hear ya I'm down with that I thought it was a simple question but it never is I'm just waiting to see what the first week looks like so I can decide what soil to order

 

[Waira]

Oh boy I'm already in over my head feel like I know all that but then get new or conflicting information and still never know what is "right". I know for me and I think Frank we want to keep it as simple as possible growing TLS with high ppm water least mine is I think Franks is too. Should we use RO pure? ph no ph? or mix some tap to 50-100ppm then ph? I've also done it where I use pure RO water with just a little water soluble gypsum and epsom to bring the RO up to 50-100ppm that way. For that almost seemed the best and easiest cause it also came out to good ph 6.3. But then I worried I was adding stuff to the soil that wasn't needed and hurting my self in the long run.





I know my tap is high ppm high alkalinity high ph 350-400ppm 8.4 ph believe it full of calcium carbonate

All in a nutshell, I'd recommend mixing the RO + tap to about 100-150ppm. That's what I do as well... It'll give the water some pH buffering capacity itself, stabilize the pH, and keep the balancing/buffering pressure less on the soil and 'crobe herd...

I think in organic-only/TLS, straight RO water would be generally more OK than with mineral salt based nutes because the salt ion stuff is typically right-now available and readily dissolvable, which can potentially play havoc on pH swings (changing as the soil goes drier to variable degrees) and the osmotic's going on with the root cells...
The osmosis thing, it's that whole cell's semi-permeable membrane which drifts us into more technical biology, risks (as Frank mentioned) over-complicating things (answers) , so if you want more details just check it out on the 'net...

A side note: gypsum and epsoms will not help with pH buffering really, per se... pH buffering in aqueous solutions involves mainly CaCO3, specifically the carbonate ions (CO3--) latching into free H+ (which is what acidity is basically) to form bicarbonate HCO3-,... No carbonate, no buffering

Oh, about the acidification effect of water, especially with RO/DI water, involves atmospheric CO2 dissolving into the water, reacting to form carbonic acid... weak indeed... consider how little CO2 there is in air, but with zero pH buffering capacity in RO/Di, even that little bit is enough to push pH down...

 

[Frankthetank]

Blue Dog

 

[Waira]

Blue Dog

... hope ya get a lil' stanker! Them Chem' genes can put the capital"F" in Funk

 

[WildBill]

Yeah I think there's a lot wrong with this video, though admittedly I haven't watched it again recently. Jeremy is only half right in his explanation. pH can be influenced by water and will play a huge role nutrient availability and uptake. Many water sources are fine and organics does have greater buffering capacity than hydro or salt grows. However, if we want to optimize nutrient/plant interactions then pH is the most important metric to consider after soluble salts. Think of it this way, if pH is optimized, and keep in mind it's a pretty large range we are talking here 6.6-7.2 is reasonable in many cases, at KIS we target 6.8 for living soils, then the plant can put energy into other plant processes like photosynthesis, cell reproduction, etc....

Optimization is the keyword.
Is it mandatory? Hell no! Especially not in a highly active microbial media.
I use the same RO water I put in my humidifier to water my girls. It comes out right at 7.0 and pretty close to zero PPM. When I add a ferment, such as EM1, that will usually bring the ph down slightly, same with adding J, with both being at 3.5pH.