Guess my leaf problem! - Acne face on my leaves
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Hey Nomis- That is some damn weird spotting, brother,... I can see why A4 though bugs,...a few questions: the pic of the leaf underside, is that one that has spotting on the upper surface? I think I see it some through it, but can't tell for sure...point is, do the spots show through to the opposite side of the leaf? You found no bugs of any kind, anywhere? And is your pH meter a soil probe Acccurate 8, or a liquid tester?...
I'm thinking...
- bug bites, like some thrips and aphids, will scar the surface tissue, but usually not show through the opposite side; others, with larger piercing parts, may cause deeper damage that does,... And at that size, they should be readily spotted! Larger vermin may target the veins because there's more ample juice to be sucked out of them... thrips, are very mobile- (think dine-and-shine!)... but in general they're very small, so spots this large would not likely be caused by them... Aphids are slow movers, and almost always target the undersides, or sheltered areas, avoiding exposed surfaces; other less common vermin could be a possibility still... scrutinize the tent closely, cracks/crevasses, under pots,... this is "just to be sure" measure, because I think it's more likely a defc. issue...
- spotting caused by Ca defc. will also show through to the other side of the leaf; however, these are not the usual color, and are of a very consistent size,.... stranger still, I see this spotting all over the main and side veins, totally yellowing them out,... but that said, not all defc. symptoms are going to follow the typical manifestations,... I have had some weird spotting similar to this, that followed the veins, like you see in the 5th pic down.... Ca treatment halted it,... where it's occurring fits the Ca defc. bill as well, as does the timing,... Ca-Mg issues are common during the bloom stage, even when giving regular supp's to try and prevent it... I see plenty of unblemished leaves as well; vermin tend to leave some scattered damage on lots of leaves, before settling down and hammering certain ones...
-- those lower leaves with the interveinal yellowing-- looks like minor Mg defc.; like A4 said, this is expected at this stage of blooming,....
So, answer those questions to give us some more details,... pH and defc. often go hand in hand, but Ca is not locked out that readily until things get really acidic, which assuming the readings are accurate, is not the case here,... you're very close to harvest, right? if you're soon to start final cleansing, it may be best to just let it go, rather than try to load up on Ca at the last minute here,..! If you have a couple weeks or so still, you can go ahead and give some dedicated Ca-Mg supp's, and see if this helps.... meantime, I'll try to get another set of eyes here to diagnose,... this is a weird one! :smoke:
I'm thinking...
- bug bites, like some thrips and aphids, will scar the surface tissue, but usually not show through the opposite side; others, with larger piercing parts, may cause deeper damage that does,... And at that size, they should be readily spotted! Larger vermin may target the veins because there's more ample juice to be sucked out of them... thrips, are very mobile- (think dine-and-shine!)... but in general they're very small, so spots this large would not likely be caused by them... Aphids are slow movers, and almost always target the undersides, or sheltered areas, avoiding exposed surfaces; other less common vermin could be a possibility still... scrutinize the tent closely, cracks/crevasses, under pots,... this is "just to be sure" measure, because I think it's more likely a defc. issue...
- spotting caused by Ca defc. will also show through to the other side of the leaf; however, these are not the usual color, and are of a very consistent size,.... stranger still, I see this spotting all over the main and side veins, totally yellowing them out,... but that said, not all defc. symptoms are going to follow the typical manifestations,... I have had some weird spotting similar to this, that followed the veins, like you see in the 5th pic down.... Ca treatment halted it,... where it's occurring fits the Ca defc. bill as well, as does the timing,... Ca-Mg issues are common during the bloom stage, even when giving regular supp's to try and prevent it... I see plenty of unblemished leaves as well; vermin tend to leave some scattered damage on lots of leaves, before settling down and hammering certain ones...
-- those lower leaves with the interveinal yellowing-- looks like minor Mg defc.; like A4 said, this is expected at this stage of blooming,....
So, answer those questions to give us some more details,... pH and defc. often go hand in hand, but Ca is not locked out that readily until things get really acidic, which assuming the readings are accurate, is not the case here,... you're very close to harvest, right? if you're soon to start final cleansing, it may be best to just let it go, rather than try to load up on Ca at the last minute here,..! If you have a couple weeks or so still, you can go ahead and give some dedicated Ca-Mg supp's, and see if this helps.... meantime, I'll try to get another set of eyes here to diagnose,... this is a weird one! :smoke:
Muddy
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That looks more like an advanced case of thrips to me. Are you seeing any of their droppings on the leaves. The garlic treatment might take care of them, if not, some neem will do the trick. This picture shows thrips damage. The one on the right looks similar to yours.
Nomis, I had similar signs on 4 of my plants, that were not LSTed right, so they were smaller and overall stressed and then heat arrived and two of them showed signs like yours heavily. In my case, I did nothing because I was almost sure that combination of stress and heat brought that and that I had nothing to do, except improve antiheat measurements what I had done quite succesfully. They finshed very early and 4 of them brought only 255g dry instead of 500 at least, what had been expected.
This 4 plants were fed with the same stuff as others, not stressed plants, so I have not thought about any deficiency. As yours, mine had not drunk very much. Besides, I check plants for insects, especially aphids, whenever I water them, so I have not thought about any damage from predators.
Two crucial factors that changed in this particular grow were:
- stress from damaging main stems with unproper LST and accidentally toppng one of them
- heat around lights which I had not been removing properly when heat outside had changed
Bellow is old picture of that damage, this is silver version and some leafes were exactly like yours, strange metalic looking yellow colour, but unfortunatelly I can not find picture.
Since I have never cleared out what had happened to that 4 plants exactly, I would appreciate any thoughts about my blaming stress and heat for that. And I did not grow these plants only in that time, that was only one generation, so there was no serious mistake that I might have been doing about feeding, watering etc., minor yes, but not so serious to cause that.
This 4 plants were fed with the same stuff as others, not stressed plants, so I have not thought about any deficiency. As yours, mine had not drunk very much. Besides, I check plants for insects, especially aphids, whenever I water them, so I have not thought about any damage from predators.
Two crucial factors that changed in this particular grow were:
- stress from damaging main stems with unproper LST and accidentally toppng one of them
- heat around lights which I had not been removing properly when heat outside had changed
Bellow is old picture of that damage, this is silver version and some leafes were exactly like yours, strange metalic looking yellow colour, but unfortunatelly I can not find picture.
Since I have never cleared out what had happened to that 4 plants exactly, I would appreciate any thoughts about my blaming stress and heat for that. And I did not grow these plants only in that time, that was only one generation, so there was no serious mistake that I might have been doing about feeding, watering etc., minor yes, but not so serious to cause that.
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...thanks for stopping by Muddy! :Sharing One:...yeah, I'm still conflicted myself,..need to know if those spots show through the opposite side,... one would think for sure that Ca defc. spotting that bad would, and to my recollection, does, cause necrosis through and through... if they don't, I'd start looking for bugs too!
...what bothers me are those yellowed out veins,... small bugs usually don't attack there--too tough! There's no silvery stippling at all,...(LOL!- Good pics Muddy-- I took pics of my current thrip damage too, yesterday-- ya beat me to it!); I didn't see any black tell-tale turds either--(Nomis, how about it, did you see little black specks anywhere, including underneath?) ....would a leaf that's been that heavily bug hammered (pics 3,4) still be that turgid, no wilting, no necrosis,...? If it's a bug, I'm betting it's a bigger type, and very mobile... *** more thrip damage pics; the size I see is about like this dash (-), or smaller...
... Gonzo :tiphat: Hmmm, I don't think heat/stress would cause this; without other pics of affected leaves, it's hard to make a call,... heat stress, and often associated water stress, often causes curling up along the leaf margins, dull surface discoloration, tip/margin roasting,...or worse! ...LST, or other physical type damage doesn't cause symptoms like this that I heard of,... if stem damage is bad enough to interfere with cell-to-cell conduction of water/nutrients, it would just wither and die out, no time for spotting, etc., to form....
...what bothers me are those yellowed out veins,... small bugs usually don't attack there--too tough! There's no silvery stippling at all,...(LOL!- Good pics Muddy-- I took pics of my current thrip damage too, yesterday-- ya beat me to it!); I didn't see any black tell-tale turds either--(Nomis, how about it, did you see little black specks anywhere, including underneath?) ....would a leaf that's been that heavily bug hammered (pics 3,4) still be that turgid, no wilting, no necrosis,...? If it's a bug, I'm betting it's a bigger type, and very mobile... *** more thrip damage pics; the size I see is about like this dash (-), or smaller...
... Gonzo :tiphat: Hmmm, I don't think heat/stress would cause this; without other pics of affected leaves, it's hard to make a call,... heat stress, and often associated water stress, often causes curling up along the leaf margins, dull surface discoloration, tip/margin roasting,...or worse! ...LST, or other physical type damage doesn't cause symptoms like this that I heard of,... if stem damage is bad enough to interfere with cell-to-cell conduction of water/nutrients, it would just wither and die out, no time for spotting, etc., to form....
Thanks for all the input everyone! The weekend guy didn't show up for work today so I got called in & wasn't able to get here to update.
I'm not sure if this is bugs. The spotting problem is not as rapid as yesterday, but other deficiencies are popping up. I do think I've mucked things up a bit more by feeding straight water last time as she kinda looks like she wants more nutes.
Here's a test video of her 360 degrees:
http://tinypic.com/r/mt1191/8
I did some review of my grow logs and am thinking maybe I've not added enough Cal/Mg juice and/or adding too much Potassium via the
0-50-30 booster. There could be some added stress from heat reaching 85/30 f/c.
Reasons for this:
- CalMg in Dolomite Lime added to soil is now used up after 2 months and plant now relies soley on 1 tsp Ca/Mg twice a week with other nutes.
- The plant last had full nutes last Monday, followed by plain water with molasses on Wednesday, and now the plant is showing other deficiencies from lack of nutes, including Mg.
- I'm using some high test 0-50-30 bloom booster at 1/4 tsp per gallon. According to Growweedeasy.com, "Too much potassium can also sometimes cause the appearance of a calcium deficiency"
- 24/0 light schedule may require increased Ca/Mg under LED?
- The buds started spitting out new pistols over the last few days, requiring increased nutes?
To answer a few specific posts:
Gonzo - Thank you. It can get hot in there in the afternoons especially, up to 86f/30c, possibly a bit higher near the top of the canopy. I also got a late start with LST and she's funky shaped as a result. Her main stem does get a lot of direct light at a critical turn point.
Waira - I do have some bugs. They are called 'noseums' over here lol. They can come through the window screens whenever they like and go into the closet door and hopefully get stuck on some fly paper and ignore the plant. I have witnessed a bad gnat problem at a friends grow and have seen them walking about in the soil. Last night I have rooted about in the top layer of soil with a flashlight and poker tool, and also poked into most of the airpot holes. I also shook the branches a bit and blew some pressurized air into the holes a bit to see if anything flies about or lying on the floor.
The underside of the leaf you asked about was from picture #5 in my original post. Today however that same leaf is not totally covered in spots but instead has turned yellow, I think from lack of nutes. The main leaf I picked off, but still have it and took a 40x picture of it below to try and show better the actual damage. Keep in mind the leaf has dried up now but the spots still look good. Checking other leaves, I see no damage on the underside.
Other leaves are showing some spots, but that original picture was literally good to bad overnight, these other leaves aren't showing that same level of progression. It does look like they will simply die of lack of nutes now lol
Here's a pic of the the leaf from pic 2-4 of my first post, the one with all the spotting:
Here's the same leaf from picture #5 in my first post. Spots haven't increased, could the bud it's feeding be in overdrive?
A couple other pics of leaves:
I'm not sure if this is bugs. The spotting problem is not as rapid as yesterday, but other deficiencies are popping up. I do think I've mucked things up a bit more by feeding straight water last time as she kinda looks like she wants more nutes.
Here's a test video of her 360 degrees:
http://tinypic.com/r/mt1191/8
I did some review of my grow logs and am thinking maybe I've not added enough Cal/Mg juice and/or adding too much Potassium via the
0-50-30 booster. There could be some added stress from heat reaching 85/30 f/c.Reasons for this:
- CalMg in Dolomite Lime added to soil is now used up after 2 months and plant now relies soley on 1 tsp Ca/Mg twice a week with other nutes.
- The plant last had full nutes last Monday, followed by plain water with molasses on Wednesday, and now the plant is showing other deficiencies from lack of nutes, including Mg.
- I'm using some high test 0-50-30 bloom booster at 1/4 tsp per gallon. According to Growweedeasy.com, "Too much potassium can also sometimes cause the appearance of a calcium deficiency"
- 24/0 light schedule may require increased Ca/Mg under LED?
- The buds started spitting out new pistols over the last few days, requiring increased nutes?
To answer a few specific posts:
Gonzo - Thank you. It can get hot in there in the afternoons especially, up to 86f/30c, possibly a bit higher near the top of the canopy. I also got a late start with LST and she's funky shaped as a result. Her main stem does get a lot of direct light at a critical turn point.
Waira - I do have some bugs. They are called 'noseums' over here lol. They can come through the window screens whenever they like and go into the closet door and hopefully get stuck on some fly paper and ignore the plant. I have witnessed a bad gnat problem at a friends grow and have seen them walking about in the soil. Last night I have rooted about in the top layer of soil with a flashlight and poker tool, and also poked into most of the airpot holes. I also shook the branches a bit and blew some pressurized air into the holes a bit to see if anything flies about or lying on the floor.
The underside of the leaf you asked about was from picture #5 in my original post. Today however that same leaf is not totally covered in spots but instead has turned yellow, I think from lack of nutes. The main leaf I picked off, but still have it and took a 40x picture of it below to try and show better the actual damage. Keep in mind the leaf has dried up now but the spots still look good. Checking other leaves, I see no damage on the underside.
Other leaves are showing some spots, but that original picture was literally good to bad overnight, these other leaves aren't showing that same level of progression. It does look like they will simply die of lack of nutes now lol
Here's a pic of the the leaf from pic 2-4 of my first post, the one with all the spotting:
Here's the same leaf from picture #5 in my first post. Spots haven't increased, could the bud it's feeding be in overdrive?
A couple other pics of leaves:
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