Horrible rusting / spotting - Day 37

[Gcyum]

FFOF with nothing added
PH of water always 6.5 +/- 0.2
Temps 77-82
I have a cheap soil PH checker, it read off 6.5. The runoff of the waterings is 6.6 as of yesterday.
I always water until run off

Plant looked great last Wednesday. I have not fed veg nutes except once and the stretch stopped so I started bloom nutes. I gave her 1ML General Organics bio bloom and bio bud and 1.5ML CalMag in 1L of water. She looked great. Saturday I thought I would up her nutes.. and for some reason gave her double of everything and 1.5L of water. She now looks like this on Tuesday.

What to do? This is my first grow. I've noticed a few gnats inside the grow box- could this be caused by them? I looked under many leaves with a loupe and saw nothing. My noobie opinion is that I burned her badly on the double nutes, but now I'm not sure what to do.

 

[namvet25]

What size pot is this in?You probably have a few fungus gnats but they would not cause this problem.You can use an organic insect spray if the gnats get worse.Most nutrients dosages are for per gal so make sure you are adjusting for litres.It looks like cal/mag def so I would raise the dose to 10 ml per gal and make sure the entire pot is watered until runoff.It's pretty hard to burn plants using organic feed and as far as i can see that should not be your problem.I would recommend a full watering with 10 ml per gal of cal/mag asap and skip the nutes until next watering.

 

[Waira]

- I need to ask... how are you checking pH, with a meter? Has it been calibrated recently? ..just need to be sure about the pH, and here's why: OF has earned a bad reputation for iffy quality and badly off pH, talking low 5's here,... [HASHTAG]#1[/HASHTAG] problem soil to show here in Sick Bay, hands down,... some still get OK bags- .. must be a local sourcing thing maybe,.... while run-off is not an accurate measure of root zone pH, it can give a crude idea about if things are OK or not,...frankly, I'm shocked the run-off is 6.6,... the cheapo pH probe is not to be trusted in any case,.. never found one that works worth a damn, only a higher quality unit like the Accurate 8 ph probe has proven trustworthy,....
... symptoms look like P defc. to me, which is really odd considering you feed fairly well (those dosages are still light, even doubled; I have GO Box stuff myself, and there's no sign of nute burn (Nammy's right, organics are less likely to burn).... And the pH is fine- pending confirmation of it's calibration and good working order,.... Normally, I'd consider the feeds to be behind a sudden dip in pH, locking out P,... only way you can have put P in and get defc. symptoms,... very weird man! the nute, they're in good shape still? Organics can easily go bad, but your nose usually will tell you,...... well, my next guess is since she's in high demand stage now, and internal sources and soil sources are weak or depleted, it's caught up on her suddenly and she needs even more,.. are you using any inoculants? Critical for organics, a healthy diverse herd is needed to break down and cycle the nutes into forms the plant can absorb,...
... let us kmnow about the pH measuring method and if it's a meter, calibration,... something is not adding up here,....

 

[Gcyum]

What size pot is this in?You probably have a few fungus gnats but they would not cause this problem.You can use an organic insect spray if the gnats get worse.Most nutrients dosages are for per gal so make sure you are adjusting for litres.It looks like cal/mag def so I would raise the dose to 10 ml per gal and make sure the entire pot is watered until runoff.It's pretty hard to burn plants using organic feed and as far as i can see that should not be your problem.I would recommend a full watering with 10 ml per gal of cal/mag asap and skip the nutes until next watering.

It is in a 3 gal pot.

I took your advice and on this mornings watering gave her the 10ml (adjusted as I do it in liters). It's been only 8 hours so we'll see if it helps.

Thanks namvet, I truly appreciate your help!

- I need to ask... how are you checking pH, with a meter? Has it been calibrated recently? ..just need to be sure about the pH, and here's why: OF has earned a bad reputation for iffy quality and badly off pH, talking low 5's here,... [HASHTAG]#1[/HASHTAG] problem soil to show here in Sick Bay, hands down,... some still get OK bags- .. must be a local sourcing thing maybe,.... while run-off is not an accurate measure of root zone pH, it can give a crude idea about if things are OK or not,...frankly, I'm shocked the run-off is 6.6,... the cheapo pH probe is not to be trusted in any case,.. never found one that works worth a damn, only a higher quality unit like the Accurate 8 ph probe has proven trustworthy,....
... symptoms look like P defc. to me, which is really odd considering you feed fairly well (those dosages are still light, even doubled; I have GO Box stuff myself, and there's no sign of nute burn (Nammy's right, organics are less likely to burn).... And the pH is fine- pending confirmation of it's calibration and good working order,.... Normally, I'd consider the feeds to be behind a sudden dip in pH, locking out P,... only way you can have put P in and get defc. symptoms,... very weird man! the nute, they're in good shape still? Organics can easily go bad, but your nose usually will tell you,...... well, my next guess is since she's in high demand stage now, and internal sources and soil sources are weak or depleted, it's caught up on her suddenly and she needs even more,.. are you using any inoculants? Critical for organics, a healthy diverse herd is needed to break down and cycle the nutes into forms the plant can absorb,...
... let us kmnow about the pH measuring method and if it's a meter, calibration,... something is not adding up here,....

Yes I am checking it with a cheapo PH meter. I also have a cheapo soil probe that I use. Neither have been calibrated recently.

I am trying to think back to what I did and didn't do over the last week. I PH the water, and then add nutes. I do not PH the nute solution as the GO Box says it is not necessary.

I am not using any inoculants. I just used the GO box as I already had it on hand. If I would be better off using different nutes in my situation, I will switch. As for the GO box itself- its been in my closet for almost a year without any use.. but they smell "fine" in my opinion. They have always smelled awful in general lol but I can open the bottles and leave them open without any smell issues. I wonder?

She looks awful. As if someone poured acid all over her Very disheartening as I have done so well up until now and we are at day 40 nearly. I will do anything to get her to harvest.. I just don't want to see her die or me have to kill her.

 

[Waira]

...well, while you don't need to adjust the nute solution itself, just because you;'re using organic nutes doesn't mean the pot pH can't/won't go off pH, especially if it was foul soil to begin with!
.. no calibrating the probe, doesn't work that way,... but the meter is critical, even less expensive models need proper storage solution and need calibrating with Standard solutions,.. they're sensitive instruments, and can get knocked off tolerances easily,... so now, that's in question too,.. and here's the hang-up: either you have OK soil pH, and just simple lack-of P defc. (maybe some others), or the soil is off ph enough to be causing a lockout of P which under acidic conditions happens pretty fast,...

.... in the first case, simple fix-- just add more nutes,.. but in the latter case, adding more nutes will make matters worse, not better,... at least with organics, things aren't that hot/rich, and uptake is slower,... barring a calibration confirmation on that meter, and we take the pH at more or less face value, and also considering the minimal inputs, plus now in bloom puts P in high demand, more likely this is a lack-of defc,.. start feeding Bloom and Biobud, half strength on bloom, full on 'Bud,.. use the diamond Black too (humic-fulvic help the nutes get in better,... then watch to see how she reacts to this initial dosage,... if OK, you can elevate Bloom to full str.,... it'll take a couple days or so to react,... meantime, see if you can get that meter calibrated and recheck run-off,...

 

[Gcyum]

...well, while you don't need to adjust the nute solution itself, just because you;'re using organic nutes doesn't mean the pot pH can't/won't go off pH, especially if it was foul soil to begin with!
.. no calibrating the probe, doesn't work that way,... but the meter is critical, even less expensive models need proper storage solution and need calibrating with Standard solutions,.. they're sensitive instruments, and can get knocked off tolerances easily,... so now, that's in question too,.. and here's the hang-up: either you have OK soil pH, and just simple lack-of P defc. (maybe some others), or the soil is off ph enough to be causing a lockout of P which under acidic conditions happens pretty fast,... View attachment 801409
.... in the first case, simple fix-- just add more nutes,.. but in the latter case, adding more nutes will make matters worse, not better,... at least with organics, things aren't that hot/rich, and uptake is slower,... barring a calibration confirmation on that meter, and we take the pH at more or less face value, and also considering the minimal inputs, plus now in bloom puts P in high demand, more likely this is a lack-of defc,.. start feeding Bloom and Biobud, half strength on bloom, full on 'Bud,.. use the diamond Black too (humic-fulvic help the nutes get in better,... then watch to see how she reacts to this initial dosage,... if OK, you can elevate Bloom to full str.,... it'll take a couple days or so to react,... meantime, see if you can get that meter calibrated and recheck run-off,...

I bought calibration solution to see where my meter is at, it will be here tomorrow. So we will find out shortly.

Everything makes perfect sense. Last feeding I gave a bunch of CalMag on namvet's recommendation and it seems to have slowed down the discoloring significantly as I see no difference from yesterday to today, compared to the last few days it got worse each day. Today is a scheduled watering but I may hold off until tomorrow until I can verify my PH meters accuracy.

I will give the Bloom, Bud, and Diamond either today or tomorrow.


Thanks for all your help Waira, I will report back when I am able to verify the PH meter!

 

[Gcyum]

Added some overall shots of her from this morning.

@Waira - Question for ya if you don't mind since you have experience with the GO box. I would like you to vet my feeding routine. I PH the water to 6.5, then add nutes. When I check the PH after adding nutes, the PH drops to around 5.5-5.6, but the GO box says not to adjust PH. Am I doing it the best way here or should I skip PH'ing the water before I add nutes, since the nutes seem to drop the PH already?

 

[Waira]

never pre-adjust the water, especially if it's to the acidic side,.. first , whats your water source? If tap, a pH and and TDS/EC reading to see how hard it is,... nutes tend to be acidic anyway, so preadjusting to acidity is compounding pH problems,... Add Ca-Mg first always, then feeds,... adjusting the pH usually isn't advised, but not out of the question, it depends on the water pH/hardness in part, and what the in-pot pH is ( if badly off in there, sometime i helps to alter feed/water pH to help adjust)...... RO/Di water is stripped of all pH buffering minerals, so even small inputs can make it swing wildly in pH, making it look worse than it really is,.. the soil microbes are critical with organics, are you using any sort of inoculant? they too help buffer pH, as well as break down and cycle nutes into form the plant can absorb,.....

 

[Tankat]

Do you spray the leaves with the light on ?


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[Gcyum]

never pre-adjust the water, especially if it's to the acidic side,.. first , whats your water source? If tap, a pH and and TDS/EC reading to see how hard it is,... nutes tend to be acidic anyway, so preadjusting to acidity is compounding pH problems,... Add Ca-Mg first always, then feeds,... adjusting the pH usually isn't advised, but not out of the question, it depends on the water pH/hardness in part, and what the in-pot pH is ( if badly off in there, sometime i helps to alter feed/water pH to help adjust)...... RO/Di water is stripped of all pH buffering minerals, so even small inputs can make it swing wildly in pH, making it look worse than it really is,.. the soil microbes are critical with organics, are you using any sort of inoculant? they too help buffer pH, as well as break down and cycle nutes into form the plant can absorb,.....

I'll bet that's helping my problems big time.. I adjust water first and then add nutes. EC meter read 108. I use tap water that sits out for 2 or 3 days. I do not use any inoculants.

The spotting has slowed significantly since she got CalMag, Bloom, Bud, and Diamond Black. It's still getting worse but it is barely spreading at this point, so I'm hoping another round of nutes will get her back on course.

Thanks Waira!

Do you spray the leaves with the light on ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have never sprayed the leaves.

Thanks for stopping by Tankat!