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How to boost supersoil/organics during bloom

oh yeah bro, no problem. Organics can be FAR FAR more of an undertaking if you want it to be.hydro is pretty straight forward all said n done but certainly involved. but look at worm farms and bokashi making. and even a compost pile outdoors if your so inclined as well.thats most of what you would need for a mostly sustainable garden of life and plants man. not hard bro, well when your ready for more hit me up.
 
Reading through this, I think Eyes has really good advice for you. For one, you have a strong soil and growth you say shows no deficiencies, so you're doing fine I'd say, don't overdo it, I've got caught up in that recently, underestimating my soil.

Aeration of your medium, as Eyes said, should be looked at. Did you say what stage, of flowering? If you're watering once per 3 or 4 days, that seems like an issue--I'd like the medium to dry cycle a lot faster so you're watering every other day at most, so there's something there...Too much soggy time, no oxygen in the root zone, I think it's slowing them down.

Another limiting factor could be co2, everything else being equal. How's your intake air? You can boost your co2 cheaply with yeast and sugar in a jug of warm water, set it right behind your circulation fan so it blows over the leaves where it's needed. Many people feel house air is stale enough, lol, with co2 for the plants, but I do like to supplement. Lack of co2 is another potential limiting factor affecting your yield, or air circulation in general. The air must move over the leaves, of course.

Light intensity is also needed to get top results from leds. How big is your space, how many panels do you have?

But yeah, the aeration of the medium probably needs adjusting... :peace:
 
So to give you guys an idea of how I do it, I sorta model it after the veggie garden and the, "lift" method, meaning, I saturate the soil thoroughly, and then give it some days to dry out.. when I say saturate, I run a gallon through at least 3 times and let it dry out until the whole pot is light, like I had just filled it.. I know some guys on here would water it a few ozs and call it a day..

I always had good luck doing that with my veggies, knowing it induces root growth and development.. Am I going at it wrong?? That's why I look to you guys for advice!!! As for aeration, other than the Roots Organic, my subcool recipe is 25% coarse perlite, and the consistency of the supersoil just seems like it would have great drainage, and in my mind, great drainage = decent aeration.. Should I ease up on watering in terms of saturation?? I always felt that not watering fully could yield dry, Hotspots that fluctuate pH, sort of negating the idea of a water-only grow... I don't pH my water because I KNOW out of the tap it's between 6.2-7.1.. May seem crazy, but I don't even aerate the water because i've done some reading on it and it's not as big a deal as some folks believe, from a chemistry standpoint, unless you're in an area that has terrible water..

I don't wanna come across as an asshole, simply just trying to learn and i've relied on my science background to understand the biology, however empirical knowledge always trumps textbooks.. You guys are the empirical knowledge and wisdom so I take everything you say with serious consideration and thought..
 
eh no worries bro. well with veggies you know such as maters right? well you get cutting,bursting and slicing of the skins with uneven watering. but with a moist core at least similar in a viticulture 'esk like way of growth and strengthening and combined with a simple high brix diet as water enhancements you'll find it will increase the wall of cellulose and thickness of the stalk and help prevent pests and a host of other things also.

but proper binding of a living soil takes the place of some that perlite. in the grow styles of today coco and porous rock n the ;like are considered the normal for drainage and texture ,whereas this is actually incorrect.its the life and pathogens n similar that decide the proper and correct aeration and drainage capacity of a living soil such as your,so thats why i said earlier LIFE,life remains king brother. make sense? but rock and/or pelite and coco coir is a bonus and should be added,but WITH life.
 
then have you ever had a pot bound up since ya know soil is food and bonds the soil and plant as one almost and its hard to water.well the life has been tamped some and a life tea with some yucca extract or castile soap even works alright.dr broners is nice too,but that helps penetrate that as you well know and its not given quite enough time to help restore and there is less soil anyway,and thats where topping the pot or top coating comes in helping keep moist the top of the pot with fresh soil so water and life will help resote it a little faster this way. try that. works for me when that happens.

since over saturation for veggies generally is a good thing. they are mostly used to it. but with cannabis for more ideal situations imho i believe slight,not total viticulture drying with a moist core to wet pots are ideal. but only a small bit of runoff.i never do it any other way ideally.
 
or if its bound also another trick is to use a simple B vitamin like raw granules and a simple yucca and literally soak the pot in a 5 gallon bucket till the bubbles stop then let it drain. just hold it there just above the lip of the pot covering the top slightly and hold it there or shim it in place. works great man. great for soaking a lotta small wee ones for a large dose and soaking too.
 
It's definitely all starting to make sense!! I had seen yucca extract in the store the other day when I went to go buy some new nursery pots, as I don't have a ton of money right now for airpots or fabric pots (nursery pots run about $2/piece around here), and I was wondering what it did, and searched here only to find out I helps with surface tension.. Light bulb came on in my head after your last posts.. I'm about to drop some more beans either today or tomorrow and I will be going to grab some or I may try a teaspoon or so of some liquid dish soap for watering.. I kept wondering why I had to run the water through so many times, and thought I had a better understanding of aeration..

You also reminded me that it's tea day for the plants.. Should I try the yucca extract or soap today with the watering today??
 
well standard dish soap can be used but you have to be careful of using TOO much detergent since castile and dr broners are geared and made without heavy detergents that piss off life if used regularly. i would invest in a 3 or 5 dollar bottle of castile soap and use maybe a teaspoon to a gallon or 1.5 tsp to 2 gallons or so. or with the yucca which imho is better as a surfactant

Better yet.One of the Experts I happen to follow like shadow sometimes.LOL!

[h=2]Saponin Benefits[/h]

Saponins are a class of chemical compounds, one of many secondary metabolites found in natural sources, with saponins found in particular abundance in various plant species. Any of numerous glycosides that occur in many plants (soapbark, soapwort, or sarsaparilla) that are characterized by their properties of foaming in water solution and producing hemolysis when solutions are injected into the bloodstream and that on hydrolysis yield a triterpenoid or steroid sapogenin and one or more sugars (glucose, galactose, xylose).

Saponins-group of chemicals with detergent-like properties that plants produce to help them resist microbial pathogen such as fungi and certain bacteria and viruses.
[h=3]Source of saponins[/h]
Saponins are found in a number of plants. In the animal kingdom saponins are found in most sea cucumbers and starfish.

Expectorant properties
Ipecac
Lobelia

Respitory System Properties
Urginea maritima
Bellis perennis
Primula vera
Verbascum thapsus
Viola
Glycyrrhiza glabra
Polygala senega

Absorption Properties
Beetroot
Oats
Asparagus
Spinach
Legumes

Systemic Effect Properties
Scrophularia nodosa
Akebia trifoliata
Betula pendula
Zea mays

Vascular Disorder Properties
Aesculus hippocastanum

Soapy Detergent Properties (anti-microbe properties)
Tilia spp
Achillea millefolium
Yucca
Saponaria spp
Agave spp
Chenopodium quinoa
Rittha Tree (India and Nepal)

Cardiac Properties
Foxglove

Uses: liquid soap, jewelry polish, detergent, exzema/dermatitis cure, pesticide/insecticide, pet shampoo, human shampoo, household cleaner (inside/outside), laundry detergent, surfactant, wetting agent, nutrient uptake, spreader/sticker, anti-microbe, adjuvant (make other solutions work better), treat malaria, lower blood cholesterol, hypertension aid, kill nematodes, bone health, cancer fighter, support immune system (build it up), parasite remover (tick, flea), automobile cleaner

[h=4]Bioactivities[/h]
One research use of the saponin class of natural products involves their complexation with cholesterol to form pores in cell membrane bilayers, e.g., in red cell (erythrocyte) membranes, where complexation leads to red cell lysis (hemolysis) on intravenous injection. In addition, the amphipathic nature of the class gives them activity as surfactants that can be used to enhance penetration of macromolecules such as proteins through cell membranes. Saponins have also been used as adjuvants in vaccines.
Saponins from the Gypsophila paniculata (Baby’s Breath) plant have been shown to very significantly augment the cytotoxicity of immunotoxins and other targeted toxins directed against human cancer cells. The research groups of Professor Hendrik Fuchs (Charité University, Berlin, Germany) and Dr David Flavell (Southampton General Hospital, United Kingdom) are working together toward the development of Gypsophila saponins for use in combination with immunotoxins or other targeted toxins for patients with leukemia, lymphoma and other cancers.

[h=4]Medical uses/Health Benefits[/h]
Recent studies have found benefits: control blood cholesterol levels, bone health, cancer, and building up the immune system.
There is tremendous, commercially driven promotion of saponins as dietary supplements and nutriceuticals. There is evidence of the presence of saponins in traditional medicine preparations, where oral administrations might be expected to lead to hydrolysis of glycoside from terpenoid (and obviation of any toxicity associated with the intact molecule). But as is often the case with wide-ranging commercial therapeutic claims for natural products:
the claims for organismal/human benefit are often based on very preliminary biochemical or cell biological studies; and mention is generally omitted of the possibilities of individual chemical sensitivity, or to the general toxicity of specific agents,) and high toxicity of selected cases.
While such statements require constant review (and despite the myriad web claims to the contrary), it appears that there are very limited (United States and Europe) agency-approved roles for saponins in human therapy. Their use as adjuvants in the production of vaccines, toxicity associated with sterol complexation remains a major issue for attention. Therapeutic benefit is a result of careful administration of an appropriate dose. Great care needs to be exercised in evaluating or acting on specific claims of therapeutic benefit from ingesting saponin-type and other natural products.
Saponins have historically been understood to be plant-derived, but they have also been isolated from marine organisms. Saponins are indeed found in many plants, and derive their name from the soapwort plant (Genus Saponaria, Family Caryophyllaceae), the root of which was used historically as a soap. Saponins are also found in the botanical family Sapindaceae, with its defining genus Sapindus (soapberry or soapnut), and in the closely related families Aceraceae (maples) and Hippocastanaceae (horse chestnuts). It is also found heavily in Gynostemma pentaphyllum (GenusGynostemma, Family Cucurbitaceae) in a form called gypenosides, and ginseng or red ginseng (Genus Panax, Family Araliaceae) in a form called ginsenosides. Within these families, this class of chemical compounds are found in various parts of the plant: leaves, stems, roots, bulbs, blossom and fruit. Commercial formulations of plant-derived saponins – e.g., from the soap bark (or soapbark) tree, Quillaja saponaria, and from other sources—are available via controlled manufacturing processes, which make them of use as chemical and biomedical reagents.
Chenopodium quinoa plant has a long history of use in South America and is not harmful to humans. Toxic saponins are known as sapotoxins. Saponin digitalis of the Foxglove plant is used in heart medicines.
[h=3]What are Saponins?[/h]
Natural detergents found in a variety of plant species, especially desert plants but also herbs (soapwort, soaproot, soapbark, soapberry). Commercial saponins are mainly extracted from desert plants Quillaja saponaria and Yucca schidigera. Quillaja bark has been used in Chile as shampoo for centuries. Yucca is native to the Mojave and Sonoran deserts of California, Baja California and Southern Nevada and Western Arizona. Because of their surfactant properties, saponins are also used industrially, in mining and ore separation, emulsions for photographic films and cosmetic products like lipstick and shampoo where their anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties are important in addition to their emollient effects. Their properties are extracted using cold-press methods.
Yucca root has high levels of saponin and Native Americans used it for years to make soap and shampoo. Native Americans washed their hair with Yucca to fight dandruff and hair loss. They also used the flowers and fruit for food. The black seeds were dried and ground into flour. Leaf fibers were used to weave cloth, make rope and to make sandals. Yucca has been used to treat headaches, bleeding, gonorrhea, arthritis and rheumatism and many other ailments throughout history.
The soapy characteristics of saponins make them ideal for use as spray adjuvants (they make sprays work better). They also make sprays stick or spread better on leaf surfaces. They also allow nutrients to be absorbed better. Another important thing they do is to distribute water more evenly on hard-to-wet substrates. For these reasons saponins are often used in fertilizers, potting soils and pesticides.
Yucca wetting agents improve the effectiveness:
• pesticides
• increase nutrient uptake
• distribute water more evenly
• biodegradeable
• organic
• renewable

Saponins when mixed with water reduce the surface tension of water, allowing the formation of small stable bubbles. As a consequence of their surface-active properties, saponins are excellent foaming agents (very stable). Today, saponins are used in the manufacture of fire extinguisher foam, toothpaste, shampoos, liquid soaps, and cosmetics and to increase the foaming qualities of beer and soft drinks. Saponins come in powdered or liquid form and can be found in fertilizers (amendments) and soilless potting mixes and certain pesticides (insecticides), kitty litter, detergents, beverages, lipsticks, herbal skin balms, and many other things.
[h=4]Biological activity of saponins[/h]
Saponins have hemolytic, expectorative, anti-inflammatory and immune-stimulating activity. Beyond that, saponins demonstrate antimicrobial properties particularly against fungi and additionally against bacteria and protozoa.
Yucca and quillaja saponins have both current and potential applications in animal and human nutrition. Yucca extracts are extensively used for ammonia and odor control in pig and poultry-raising facilities and in dog and cat foods. Yucca saponins, and perhaps other components of yucca as well, have ammonia-binding activity. When added to the diet, yucca saponins pass through the digestive tract unabsorbed and are excreted in the feces. In the excreta, the yucca components bind to ammonia and certain other odiferous compounds and prevent them from being released into the air. In recent studies in England, feeding of yucca extract to dogs and cats was shown to reduce fecal odor and reduce emission of volatile compounds contributing to fecal odor. Many pet foods and "kitty litter" products now contain yucca extract to reduce these noxious odors.
Other plants containing saponins include Christmas Rose (Helleborus niger), Horse Chestnut trees (Aesculus hippocastanum), Asparagus fern (Asparagus officinalis), and Daisies (Bellis perennis). Saponins are natural detergents found in many plants, especially certain desert plants. Saponins are also present in small amounts in some foods, such as soybeans and peas. The two major commercial sources of saponins are Yucca schidigera, which grows in the arid desert area of Baja California, and Quillaja saponaria (soapbark tree), which is found in arid areas of Chile. Saponins have detergent or surfactant properties because they contain both water-soluble and fat-soluble components. They consist of a fat-soluble nucleus, having either a steroid or triterpenoid structure, with one or more side chains of water-soluble carbohydrates (sugars). Yucca saponins have a steroid nucleus (steroidal saponins), while the quillaja saponins have a triterpenoid nucleus. As a consequence of their surface-active properties, saponins are excellent foaming agents, forming very stable foams. Yucca and quillaja extracts are used in beverages, such as beer, root beer and slurpies, to provide the foamy "head." Because of their surfactant properties, they are used industrially in mining and ore separation, in preparation of emulsions for photographic films, and extensively in cosmetics, such as lipstick and shampoo. Quillaja bark has been used as a shampoo in Chile for hundreds of years, and Native Americans used yucca to make soap. The antifungal and antibacterial properties of saponins are important in cosmetic applications, in addition to their emollient effects.
.

Mature desert Yucca



Although there are reports of the development of synthetic saponins as drugs for treating high blood cholesterol, yucca and quillaja extracts are natural phytochemicals currently used in foods and beverages and as herbal products. Interestingly, recent research by scientists in Canada and Africa has suggested that the very low serum cholesterol levels of Masai tribes people in East Africa, who consume a diet very high in animal products, cholesterol, and saturated fat, are likely due to the consumption of saponin-rich herbs.

Masai village in East Africa [IMG]

The binding of bile acids by saponins has other important implications. Bile acids excreted in the bile are called primary bile acids. They are metabolized by bacteria in the colon, producing secondary bile acids. Some of the secondary bile acids are promoters of colon cancer. By binding to primary bile acids, saponins reduce the formation of the secondary bile acids. Research at the University of Toronto has shown that feeding saponins to laboratory animals reduced the number of preneoplastic colon lesions in mice. The Canadian researchers also found that saponins had a dose-dependent inhibitory effect on growth of human carcinoma cells in culture. Major current interest in quillaja saponins concerns their effects on the immune system. Specially purified quillaja saponin fractions designated as (Quil A) are used as adjuvants for vaccines. Adjuvants are substances that increase the effectiveness of what they are mixed with. Quillaja saponins increase the effectiveness of both injected and oral vaccines. In the case of injected vaccines, (Quil A) is used to prepare immunostimulating complexes (ISCOM). ISCOM's are prepared by attaching a portion of the protein envelope of a virus to (Quil A). The association of the viral protein with saponin facilitates its transport across cell membranes. Quillaja saponin-based ISCOM's are presently being evaluated in development of experimental vaccines against HIV, the virus responsible for AIDS. Besides having adjuvant activity, quillaja saponins have a direct stimulatory effect on the immune system. Example, pretreatment of mice with quillaja saponins enhances their resistance to a disease challenge. Saponins enhance the effectiveness of oral vaccines by improving their absorption as a result of increasing gut mucosal permeability, which facilitates absorption of large molecules contained in vaccines.

The desert plants Yucca schidigera and Quillaja saponaria are rich storehouses of phytochemicals with many useful and important functions in human and animal nutrition. In many respects, we have just scratched the surface in our understanding of the many biological effects of steroidal and triterpenoid saponins and their potentials for improving human health.
[h=3]Benefits of Saponins[/h][h=3]Saponins can safely be used:[/h] wetting agent
 help with nutrient uptake
 help sprays (pesticide) to spread and stick better to plant parts (use less)

anti-microbe
 anti-fungal
 promote beneficial microbial activity in the soil
 surfactant (reduces surface tension) better penetration

 bio-enhancer-added to products to make them work better
 manage excess salts (fertilizer build-up) in soil
 improve H2O penetration
 move spray solution into soil solution
 mildew cure (fungus)
 miticide (soapy quality suffocates mites)
 minimize wash-off (plant leaves)
 spray binder
 flushing of plants [cleaner than molasses (saponins in blue agave)]
 triggers plants defensive response to anaerobic fungi
 biochemical inhibitors
 boosts potency of other products (adjuvant)

To grow true medical grade marijuana, you must have all your components in sync. You must use only organically approved (OMRI) products and the entire environment must be healthy and clean. Nothing toxic. Nothing that will build to toxic levels. All sustainable! After all, you are growing a true medicine. Grown to improve health.


Organic Products: all containing saponins
a. Yuccah Liquid Concentrate
b. Blue Agave
c. Top Film
d. Saponyn
e. Yucca Ag Aid 50
f. Yucca Extract
g. NaturalWet (from Yucca 10%)
h. Pest Out
i. BioEnhancer
j. Mildew Cure

https://www.autoflower.org/threads/inoculants.33320/

you can use a little non detergent soap or the yucca is what I would do bro. this work for you? also what medi is talkig about is essetially the O2 and CO2 transfer with the leaf flutter really. just make sure its not too much or windburning the leaves and all should be ok.
 
SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, you have no idea how happy I was to get this kind of response!!! I'm all about the biomechanics, physiology and chemistry that goes on behind the scenes of biology!!!!!!! I'm a scientist at heart (hence the TCA cycle as my avatar), so it's great to read some of the specifics behind it!!! I'm about to head to the store to get some yucca extract because even though I trust the words of folks as using dish soap as a surfactent, I'd rather keep this shit completely organic/plant derived, short of the foliar sprays I had used!!!

Now, realizing autos are a bit more sensitive, does it matter the quantity, or should I just follow the directions on the bottle/bag of extract I get?? I don't want to overdo it, however, I also want to not have to dump gallons of water through pots just to get the soil moist..
 
well if it were me man, and it something like a teaspoon to a gallon I would prolly use half or even fully if your pot was/is bad currently,but normal dose to maintain the lubrication(if ya will lol) of the soil I would stay around half dose for the meantime until ya see its effects,although I doubt it would have any issue as long as its a normal strength and a powder soluble ,or liquid but NOT highly concentrated,liquid like that half always or a tick less to start with.
 
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