I'm having yellowing and drooping.....need help

[dude]

I think some use EC instead of PPM
Mine from the tap is EC 0.4

 

[Muddy]

Sorry guys, I know I haven't gotten back to any of u in a few days and I haven't cared for my girls the way I normally do, my dad is battling cancer and doesn't have long. But I just went down to my room and now I'm completely baffled as to what's going on. I added tap water that I ph'ed to 6.7, and my runoff was 6.5. So therefore that makes my soil ph 6.3 correct? By looking at the chart it doesn't seem I'm locking out very many nutrients. I did just notice I have a bunch of red stems on 2 of the girls. Could this still be a phosphorus def? Or possibly something else? Do u guys recommend I flush em? And sorry muddy, no my soil didn't contain any dolomite and I haven't added any at this point.

The soil pH isn't going to change that much from one feed to the next without something drastic having been done. So I have to question whether these readings were off or your first ones were. Red stems can be genetic, the result of lockout, or a lack of P. What nutrients are you feeding and at what strength?

 

[Needtoknowautos]

It wasn't that they changed that much I'm not getting an accurate reading of my ph. Yesterday I went crazy with the PH and now I'm confused as all hell. When I first created this post I said my runoff is usually around 6 bcuz that's what it was a few feeding a ago. I never tested it every feed because they were growing so well and I was adding 6.5 ph'ed water with or without nutes and saw the runoff around six so I thought this isn't so hard and it seems to be perfect so why mess with a good thing. Then the girls took a turn for the worst.
So first thing I did yesterday was run one liter of ph'ed water thru and tested with my digital ph tester which gave me 6.3 for my soil. I wasn't assured by that cuz in that range I shouldn't see these deficiencies so I then tested my runoff with the liquid test strips and saw my ph was between 7.5 and 8. Now fuckkkk cuz that's totally different then what I got the first time. My heart is about to explode at this point. I went to the store and bought two soil ph testers, one digital one analog. Digital reading of 6.7 and analog right under seven. I've heard bad things about soil ph testers so I'm unsure with all these readings and unsure how to properly diagnose this god awful situation. What should I do? And my nutes are botinacare grow and bloom, botinacare liquid karma, and botinacare cal mag. I'm only at the half way recommend dosage

 

[az2000]

Whoa that was a whole lot of info that I've never read up on. How do I check the ppm of my water?

All water has "total dissolved salts" (TDS) measured as PPM (parts per million) or EC (electrical conductivity?). Some water (like my tap) is extremely high. And, adding nutrients to water produces TDS. The idea is, if the water you start with has TDS, it raises the "floor" you start with, reducing the amount of nutrients you can add. It seems like we can only go to about 1150ppm TDS in soil (assuming the soil doesn't have nutrients from the manufacturer).

For example, my tap water is 750ppm TDS. That leaves me only 350-400ppm of nutrients I can add. Whereas, if I started at 0-20ppm (reverse osmosis water sold from the dispenser, or in gallon jugs at the store) I could add 1100 ppm of nutrients. Starting at a high TDS, my plant won't grow well due to lack of nutrients, may burn due to high TDS, and the useless salts will compete for uptake by the plant (i.e., it won't be the same as adding 350ppm worth of nutrients to 0ppm water. It's going to be like adding 350ppm nutrients to water that contains 750ppm non-nutritious garbage -- like flouride, salts that runoff from agricultural fields, etc.).

And then there's the matter of chlorine. If you're fortunate enough to have relatively low ppm from your tap, you probably have some form of chlorine. If it's ordinary chlorine you could aerate it away over 1-2 days prior to feeding. But, if it's chloramine (which I believe is more common in the US) it won't dissipate that way.

You can eliminate those variables by using filtered or bottled water right now. (In my area it's 25 cents per gallon out of the dispensing machine, or 80 cents for a jug inside the store.)

In the long run, buy a TDS meter. This HM TDS-EZ is $15 US. If you were hydroponic, an EC meter might be better. I've read EC is a better way to measure the same thing we're talking about. But, for soil (just to measure your tap water and mixed nutrient strength), a cheap TDS meter should be good enough.

 

[Needtoknowautos]

So I went ahead and ordered a TDS meter and it should be here by Friday. I really appreciate ur post az2000. Sounds like much needed information and if my tap water isn't suitable it sounds as though my girls aren't getting the nutes they deserve. And with my girls looking the way they do, cuz they're showing signs of several deficiencies and it matches verbatim those symptoms of root rot, could that be it? The air holes in my plants aren't very large at all and I know they're not getting much oxygen, as well as they've sat in the drip tray with runoff present until it has all evaporated.

 

[az2000]

it matches verbatim those symptoms of root rot, could that be it?

I'm not an experienced grower. I'm barely ahead of the learning curve you're finding yourself in. I know it can be wearying learning so much info, making guesses, buying more stuff.

My suggestion is to use filtered water until you get your TDS meter. If you're in the US, you should be able to call your local water company and ask them about your TDS, chlorine or chloramine, etc. They're required by federal law to publish a water quality report annually. Personally, I would just use bottled/filtered water and avoid the whole chlorine issue altogether. It's not expensive. Eventually you can by an RO filter for your residence for about $250 US.

Whether you use tap or filtered, aerating your water helps. If you use tap, it will evaporate the chlorine (but, if your city uses chloramine, it won't help that much). But, aerating with an aquarium pump and stone introduces fine air bubbles in the water which helps your roots. Also stablizes the ph by getting the carbon/carbonic acid process out of the way (or, reduces that process depending on how long and furiously you aerate).

These things might not be your problem. Could be root rot (although aerated water could help your roots?). If your ph in (and runoff) are good, then all you can do is guess what the problem is. Tap water usually isn't very good. So, I'd eliminate that variable first. Others could speculate what else to try.

Have you started a grow journal? That can help by documenting exactly your grow environment, what you've done, changes made, mistakes, etc. In this thread a few things seemed to come out in bits and pieces (like, that you use tap water). If it's all documented up front, you could get faster and more accurate answers.

It's never quite clear to me where grow journals are supposed to go. Someone posted that they can go anywhere. I suppose this sub-forum is ok. But, the new-grower forum seems more intuitive to me.

 

[dude]

get your ph up, I'd flush with a solution of 7.0 for 1 x the pot size then hit it with a 6.7 watering with 10% run off and Check the ph of run off and re calculate.

Rough Calculation Guide:

Here's some good info on ph.....
If your runoff pH is higher than your starting pH, use this equation to determine your soil pH:*
Soil pH = Runoff pH + Difference

If your runoff pH is lower than your starting pH, us this equation:
Soil pH = Runoff pH - Difference.

For example, say your the starting pH of your solution before it goes in is 6.5 and the pH of your runoff is 7.0. The difference is +0.5, so using the above equation:
Soil pH = 7.0 + 0.5*
Soil pH = 7.5

If your starting pH is 6.5 and your runoff is 6.0, your difference is -0.5 and using the above equation:
Soil pH = 6.0 - 0.5
Soil pH = 5.5

If you see the chart above at 5.5 in soil you are locking out a lot of needed nutrients......

Is it the same calculation for coco?