Lighting Is this why we NEED calcium added to our LED grows?

[420ing]

Lol i knew it would have been impossable for me to have figured out the real reason for this on my own but i wanted to see what sort of replies id get back and learn something myself and thats exactly whats happened so thanks Arty Zan and Waira and JM for the excellent information!

Ever since learning about the increased need for calcium i wanted to know why but never bothered to digg too deeply for it untill recently and couldn't find much info on it online tbh. When i found that article though i was like hmmmm thats the same kinda wavelength that LED's are giving off so thought there might have been something to it lol.

Now i've got to think up some more weird stuff whilst im stoned and post a thread about it lol

 

[JM]

Now i've got to think up some more weird stuff whilst im stoned and post a thread about it lol

please do... we nee more people thinking like this in this world..

 

[Dr Fluff]

please do... we nee more people thinking like this in this world..

JM I have to agree with your thoughts here

Secondly let me say wow, JM your drilling is awesome, drill any deeper and you be Australia.

So much reading and all those "Dan Kitterage videos" and Farmacyseeds podcasts to listen too you might not hear from me for a week.

Think I may have to dig out my youtube downloader.

As per usual I am unable to rep you as I need to spread some around so here is a even if it doesn't add a notch to your tally.

420ing I too am looking forward to learning many more things,just keep asking questions and we can all learn together

 

[gone1]

Nice theory but you cant ionize the Ca-ions in the plant since they are allready ionized, there are no Ca-atoms in the Soil or Nutrientsolution.

Edit: Ah sry Waira allready covered that

 

[JM]

https://www.autoflower.org/f74/photosynthesis-full-explanation-104.html

 

[pop22]

Hello. Something came into my head. "Why do our plants need more calcium under LED's?" So i went on google and i found this rather quickly.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0911.3867

"Quantum Physics


Two-color photoionization of calcium using SHG and LED light

C. Schuck, F. Rohde, M. Almendros, M. Hennrich, J. Eschner
(Submitted on 19 Nov 2009)

We present a photoionization method to load single 40Ca ions in a linear Paul trap from an atomic beam. Neutral Ca I atoms are resonantly excited from the ground state to the intermediate 4s4p 1P_1-level using coherent 423nm radiation produced by single-pass second harmonic generation in a periodically poled KTiOPO_4 crystal pumped with an 120mW extended cavity diode laser. Ionization is then attained with a high-power light emitting diode imaged to the trap center, using an appropriately designed optical system composed of standard achromatic doublet lenses. The setup simplifies previous implementations at similar efficiency, and it hardly requires any maintenance at all."​

From this i gather that light around the 420nm wavelength (420 lol) stimulates neutral calcium atoms and ionises them. Now some people buy an ioniser to get rid of the smell of their grows or to help at least. The ions are highly reactive so they bind to the molecules in the atmosphere that are creating the smell and make it undetectable.

Now i can remember that our LED lights use blue spectrum light between the 415nm-460nm range,maybe im a bit off there but its around that area. That light must be ionising the free calcium that is in the leafs of our plants! And when its ionised its gonna be highly reactive and connect itself onto any other atoms or molecules that are wiling to accept it i reckon. Hence the reason we need to keep giving our plants more calcium to replace the rest of it that was locked out of use by reacting with other stuff.

In natural light and other types of artificial lighting there is a more spread out spectrum of light being emmited and some of these other spectrums must produce the same effect in other atoms or molecules in such a way that it balances out the plants chemistry and counteracts the ionisation of calcium within the leafs.

I've never heard anyone get in depth about the issue before and though that this makes sense to me at least and thought id share it with you so i can be told how wrong i am lol.

BTW im pretty baked right now

Peace!

Well the quote says they used a Laser, not an LED so the energy of the wavelength was likely 1000% stronger. I'd guess ( and thats all it is...lol ) ) that if LEDs were to cause the calcium issue, it might be more of an indication of the lights being too close to the plants. I have three different strains growing under Red/Blue LED spotlights and I've never given them Cal/Mag. I've also never had a Cal issue growing under my two 300 watt LED growlights, and I've been using them over 6 months. I think that maybe people use too much Cal/Mag. I haven't added any since the first fill of my dwc res and have no issues. Depends on what nutes your using. In fact I've been thinking of tracking AFN grows that report Cal or Cal/Mag issues. I'm suspecting there may be a correlation to certain nutes being used. Just a theory right now though.

 

[dingo]

Pop you might be right about lights too close for calcium deficiency. I notice on savage hot days, my tomatoes and chillies can blister. Readings suggest a calcium deficiency caused by rapid heat transfer and not soil deficiency. Maybe turn down the lights a little or live with the cal/mag issues!

 

[gone1]

Also with full spectrum leds this shouldnt happen because there is no peak in the 420nm wavelength.
So just white leds shouldnt have this problem, i had a Mg def. but i cant say it was because of the led light im using.

 

[Dr Fluff]

:Cool bud:....interesting 420',... first question that came to mind with me was what is neutral Ca? Are they talking elemental Ca, as in the pure metal state? ..this begs the question if such a state could be found in a living system,... I got me doubts about it....I'm not sure it even occurs naturally in this pure metallic form..? It's always in the form of an ionic compound so far as I've ever seen biologically or geologically,...even if so, it makes me wonder how this would influence those valence electrons which are not in the same state as those in the neutral metallic one,...? LOL!- This is getting outside my familiar territory fast! .... OK, consider the environment those Ca ions are in, too,... it's all over the place intra-/extracellularly as Ca2+,... does this wavelength have the same effect on those electrons on the positively charged ion? It's already ionized, right..? ....if compounded to something else (carbonate, phosphate, whatever), I wouldn't think there would be any such reaction... point being, it may be only in this metallic state that such a reaction occurs,... and I don't know what state the Ca metal is ionized into...? Ca2+, or something else, unstable and temporary,... once the excited electron loses it's energy, returning to ground state, and back to metallic Ca...? ...***... recall, Ca2+ ions are not so wildly reactive in the cellular environment, they move in and out of cells as part of normal life functions w/o getting "grabby" reactive with other things,... so, I'm thinking this was a good line of thought brother 420'- , but I not so sure it's the case with LED's and the apparent odd elevated needs for for Ca associated with it,... the situation in that experiment in nothing at like what's inside the plant at the cellular level,... but I'm thinking there's still other possible pathways and reactions that may have something to do with this less directly,... :thumbs: :dunno: :smoke: Always question coincidence! Cheers 420'! :Cheers:

>>>>... :hug:JM, what's good my homie-in-chief? I missed getting Christmas Greeting out to you earlier,.. too damn pooped by the time I get to the damn 'puter! ..hope you and your family had a wonderful Holiday my friend!! :Cheers:

LMAO I only just saw this and well I had to reply.
You my friend know more about nutes and plant def than anyone I know, so I won't even try to answer your question because If I was to ask anyone about it , it would be you!
The best I can say is ask @DutchPassionTony and see if he has any recent updates to this article and where he can answer you awesome questions. If you get the answer you are looking for, please post it in the forum and tag me in!
Arty

 

[Waira]

@arty zan , thanks mate! I appears my sinister plan to project knowledge beyond my actual scope is working perfectly,... ...
I've not dug into this for a while now,... still don't have any idea, but more and more anecdotal evidence keeps piling up! For sure, certain light companies seem to have issues with the severity of the problem,... One would suspect light distances and the other usual contributing suspects to be in play with this too, but in some cases, those are all in the green, and with side-by-side tents using other type of lights (QB, COB), it's seems lesser in manifestation, as much apples-to-apples as one can get,... blurple appears to be the worst culprit... I suspect there's a specific wavelength(s) behind this, maybe too much of it? Many folks overlook the limitations and problems with single wavelength diodes, and the absolute need for proper distances... too close and the blending is lost increasingly in kind, making for uneven blasting.... Of course, COB's and QB's don't have this issue....