PLEASE, help me build a No-Till mix

[elcoloan]

Good morning friends. I'm building my mix to start growing with no-till method in my 2x2 tent under LED lighting. Never grown with this method before. Plan is to start using it to grow clones of a mother plant i've grown several time already, and then start using it for autos.
I've been reading about No-Till and TLO for quite some time, trying to understand and source everything, and was now hoping i could get some guidance/help to adapt the normal No-Till recipes to the ingredients I can source.

Long story short, I can't get crustacean meal, fish meals, neem/karanja cake, alfalfa meal, basalt, azomite, green sand, nor can i get malted barley powder or actual "kelp" meal. I can get Root Organic Soil (green bag) which is a mix containing them already but not sure how I could use it and well, i'd rather build the mix from scratch. From what I've gathered these amendments are really very important, so not sure what to use to replace them. And the things I've been able to find, I'm not sure in what ratio to use them or if they can even replace what i'm missing.

This is what I've been able to find:

For the base soil:
-Sphagnum Peat Moss
-Pumice
-Rice hulls
-EWC (N: 1,4%, P: 1.3%, K: 1.3%, Ca: 1.5%)
-coco peat

For amendments:
-biochar
-agricultural lime
-gympsum
-sea weed powder, not specified which seaweed (Total N: 1.75%, Soluble K: 3.78%, CaO: 1.78%, MgO: 1.14%, hormones and amino-acids)
-soft rock phosphate (P2O5: 28%, CaO: 38%, SiO2: 14%, F:3%, C: 1%, Al2O3: 0,5%, Fe2O3: 0,4%, MgO: 0,1%, SO4: 0,3%, Na2O: 0,1%, K2O: 0,1%)
-diatomaceous earth
-malted barley (caramel type) but not in powder, in grain form.
-leonardite (Humic acid:70 -85%, pH: 9-11, N: 0,5 –1,2%, K:0,1–0,3%, S: 1,6 –2,5 %, Mg: 0,5 –0,7%)
-zeolite (SiO2: 66,62%, Al2O3:12,17%, Fe2O3: 2,08%, CaO: 3,19%, MgO: 0,77%, Na2O: 1,53%, K2O: 1,20%, PI:11,02%)
-dolomite lime
-epsom salts
-liquid form of beneficial organisms and neem oil

This is what I plan to do:

So, with these ingredients available, for now my plan is to use a single 15 Gal / 60 Liter fabric pot in the tent and build the base soil this way:
20 % peat moss
20 % coco peat
10% rice hulls
20% pumice
30% EWC.

From the amendments i would like to use all of them, but only sure about using some of them and believe i should use them in the following quantities (per cubic feet of base soil):
1 cup gypsum
1 cup agricultural lime
6 cups biochar
1/2 cup sea weed powder
4 cups rock phosphate dust
And...
Maybe grind the caramel type malted barley grains into a powder form and use 1 cup of it.
And, I think i should use the leonardite, but don't know how much.
Not sure about using zeolite either.
Diatomaceus earth... not sure if I can add to the mix as an amendment to compensate for no Neem cake.
Dolomite lime... i've read has too much Mg, and that it's not necessary for pH buffering if using gypsum and ag lime. But i feel i need more Mg in the mix, so I'm thinking Dolomite and Epsom salts would help add Mg, but not sure if i should use only one of these to ingredients of both.





So what do you all think? Any suggestions, criticisms, modifications i should do to my plans, or comments?
@WildBill @Proph @pop22 @Eyes on Fire please allow me to tag you. Any input from you guys is much appreciated as well as from anyone willing to help me.

 

[Proph]

Good morning friends. I'm building my mix to start growing with no-till method in my 2x2 tent under LED lighting. Never grown with this method before. Plan is to start using it to grow clones of a mother plant i've grown several time already, and then start using it for autos.
I've been reading about No-Till and TLO for quite some time, trying to understand and source everything, and was now hoping i could get some guidance/help to adapt the normal No-Till recipes to the ingredients I can source.

Long story short, I can't get crustacean meal, fish meals, neem/karanja cake, alfalfa meal, basalt, azomite, green sand, nor can i get malted barley powder or actual "kelp" meal. I can get Root Organic Soil (green bag) which is a mix containing them already but not sure how I could use it and well, i'd rather build the mix from scratch. From what I've gathered these amendments are really very important, so not sure what to use to replace them. And the things I've been able to find, I'm not sure in what ratio to use them or if they can even replace what i'm missing.

This is what I've been able to find:

For the base soil:
-Sphagnum Peat Moss
-Pumice
-Rice hulls
-EWC (N: 1,4%, P: 1.3%, K: 1.3%, Ca: 1.5%)
-coco peat

For amendments:
-biochar
-agricultural lime
-gympsum
-sea weed powder, not specified which seaweed (Total N: 1.75%, Soluble K: 3.78%, CaO: 1.78%, MgO: 1.14%, hormones and amino-acids)
-rock phosphate dust (P2O5: 28%, CaO: 38%, SiO2: 14%, F:3%, C: 1%, Al2O3: 0,5%, Fe2O3: 0,4%, MgO: 0,1%, SO4: 0,3%, Na2O: 0,1%, K2O: 0,1%)
-diatomaceous earth
-malted barley (caramel type) but not in powder, in grain form.
-leonardite (Humic acid:70 -85%, pH: 9-11, N: 0,5 –1,2%, K:0,1–0,3%, S: 1,6 –2,5 %, Mg: 0,5 –0,7%)
-zeolite (SiO2: 66,62%, Al2O3:12,17%, Fe2O3: 2,08%, CaO: 3,19%, MgO: 0,77%, Na2O: 1,53%, K2O: 1,20%, PI:11,02%)
-dolomite lime
-epsom salts
-liquid form of beneficial organisms and neem oil

This is what I plan to do:

So, with these ingredients available, for now my plan is to use a single 15 Gal / 60 Liter fabric pot in the tent and build the base soil this way:
20 % peat moss
20 % coco peat
10% rice hulls
20% pumice
30% EWC.

From the amendments i would like to use all of them, but only sure about using some of them and believe i should use them in the following quantities (per cubic feet of base soil):
1 cup gypsum
1 cup agricultural lime
6 cups biochar
1/2 cup sea weed powder
4 cups rock phosphate dust
And...
Maybe grind the caramel type malted barley grains into a powder form and use 1 cup of it.
And, I think i should use the leonardite, but don't know how much.
Not sure about using zeolite either.
Diatomaceus earth... not sure if I can add to the mix as an amendment to compensate for no Neem cake.
Dolomite lime... i've read has too much Mg, and that it's not necessary for pH buffering if using gypsum and ag lime. But i feel i need more Mg in the mix, so I'm thinking Dolomite and Epsom salts would help add Mg, but not sure if i should use only one of these to ingredients of both.





So what do you all think? Any suggestions, criticisms, modifications i should do to my plans, or comments?
@WildBill @Proph @pop22 @Eyes on Fire please allow me to tag you. Any input from you guys is much appreciated as well as from anyone willing to help me.

I have to be honest.. Making soil from scratch is not something I would recommend for any beginner. You have to have a very deep understanding of how the ingredients work, and work together. Then there's the ratios and what's soluble and what's not.. It may need to cooked... There are just to many variables for a beginner to navigate. Get the bag of Roots bro. Get some microbes and a pre mixed top dress to amend with. That's your best bet at this stage. I hope your tent is 5ft or taller as well.. A 15g pot in a 2x2 is asking for space issues.

 

[hecno]

This alone will create you a lot of problems --
20 % peat moss
20 % coco peat
10% rice hulls
20% pumice
Being you first time I agree with Proph . you need a understanding of how ingredients and ratios work . Allow 3 years of making soil to get a understanding . You will adjust with every soil you build , it is about planting and seeing what the plants are telling you , then adjusting the soil for the next grow till you have a lot better idea what to add . Each time you build a soil you will be one step closer to where you want to be . Also cooking time for soil is another aspect . I like mine a min of 3 months , [ This is just me ] Also understanding what microbes do for the soil and how to look after them . As you delve deeper into this style of growing you find you are growing a living thing , The plant just becomes a secondary part . I spend more time on my soil than I do growing the plant . We are not trying to put you off , but just trying to help you understand , It is a journey that you will come to love as time goes by . So start with small steps and build up your knowledge base to get to -- No Till --

 

[elcoloan]

I have to be honest.. Making soil from scratch is not something I would recommend for any beginner. You have to have a very deep understanding of how the ingredients work, and work together. Then there's the ratios and what's soluble and what's not.. It may need to cooked... There are just to many variables for a beginner to navigate. Get the bag of Roots bro. Get some microbes and a pre mixed top dress to amend with. That's your best bet at this stage. I hope your tent is 5ft or taller as well.. A 15g pot in a 2x2 is asking for space issues.

This alone will create you a lot of problems --
20 % peat moss
20 % coco peat
10% rice hulls
20% pumice
Being you first time I agree with Proph . you need a understanding of how ingredients and ratios work . Allow 3 years of making soil to get a understanding . You will adjust with every soil you build , it is about planting and seeing what the plants are telling you , then adjusting the soil for the next grow till you have a lot better idea what to add . Each time you build a soil you will be one step closer to where you want to be . Also cooking time for soil is another aspect . I like mine a min of 3 months , [ This is just me ] Also understanding what microbes do for the soil and how to look after them . As you delve deeper into this style of growing you find you are growing a living thing , The plant just becomes a secondary part . I spend more time on my soil than I do growing the plant . We are not trying to put you off , but just trying to help you understand , It is a journey that you will come to love as time goes by . So start with small steps and build up your knowledge base to get to -- No Till --
View attachment 1301146View attachment 1301147View attachment 1301148

Thanks for the input and reminders! I guess I should have noted that I'm in no kind of rush here to start getting good (or any) No-Till results. I know I have to allow the soil time to cook and well mixed, and even more time to get everything "dialed in" and get acquainted with the ingredients i have available and understand how they work/interact. I want to start building the mix now to start experimenting, learning, and hopefully be able to start using/testing it by the end of this year with clones from the mother plant I've known for a few years now and plan to keep growing for many years. I don't mind if what I do doesn't turn out producing well... still have lots of herbs from previous coco runs, and actually plan to have a coco plant going parallel to my no-till experimenting to supply my consuming needs which aren't really too demanding.

@Proph, from the list i made, what could I use to amend/top dress the Root Organix Soil? Those ingredients I list are the only things I've been able to find here where i live for the past 3 years of searching, and at reasonable prices. Additional to them, the Roots Organic Soil bag is the only thing I was able to find recently and at a reasonable price. But, for example, I can also get a KIS nutrient pack but at minimum 4 times what it costs in the US, and the same with Down To Earth ingredients. Other than these I can't find anything else other than what I've listed. So not sure what to do there.

@hecno , so for a base soil what would be better? just peat, pumice and EWC? What would the problem be with that base soil i planed to use? just trying to understand.

 

[hecno]

I will get back to you , off to work , while I am gone check out soil building here in the organic thread . My posts and other members here . Lots of info . I'll get back to you after work today .

 

[hecno]

Ok @elcoloan Here we go . Peat , pumice , I don't use at all . You want your soil with as much organic matter in as you can , I have know problem with moisture by not using it , I do not know anything about these type of soils - Roots Organic Soil ect - again I make my own , but I would think they would make a good base . Kis nutrient - Down to earth - This is where it get interesting - I see this often . What are you going to learn from that stuff . You can read a label . Where to me go from here - Nitrogen , what is it and what does it do - same with phosphate - Potassium . I get the 3 , out of Fish Hydrolsate - Bat guano - Kelp - [ all are microbe foods too ] The thing to do is to look at there other nutrient inputs , Now here is some examples - . N - Charlie carp 10.1.6 - Bat Guano - P - Provides the ideal analysis of 12% P combined with 34.5% Calcium - K - Nitrogen (N) (as organic) 1.17% Phosphorus (P) (water soluble) 0.23% Potassium (K) (as organic) 19.12% Sulfur (S) 1.80% Magnesium (Mg) 0.37% Calcium (Ca) , you get the idea . This is what I can get , you will have products with the same sort of thing , This is where the trick is , The other bits they have in it . Molasses also is very good it is a microbe food . Now the big players here are the worms . Not a standard worm bin with kitchen scraps , but what they would feed on in the wild . Most food from supermarkets are very low on nutrition so the nutrition value to the worms is low as well . So I will stop here as I do not know your environment you live in , But if you are keen it can be done even in a big city .

 

[Sour D]

For amendments--get a worm/compost bin going asap. Look up FFJ-Ferment Fruit Juice, FPE- Fermented Plant Extract How to make stuff with local ingredients. Use trimmings from your plants as mulch. Check out Leighton Morrison on Future Cannabis Project a soil scientist that speaks plain english He is on all the Living Soil Conversations. His Horizons system is real interesting and again is about using what you have in your own area

 

[WildBill]

Just do this, plant a cover crop, let it cook and start a worm bin. It's simple.
I'm going to do something similar next month with my little tweaks for plans later this year.

 

[elcoloan]

Ok @elcoloan Here we go . Peat , pumice , I don't use at all . You want your soil with as much organic matter in as you can , I have know problem with moisture by not using it , I do not know anything about these type of soils - Roots Organic Soil ect - again I make my own , but I would think they would make a good base . Kis nutrient - Down to earth - This is where it get interesting - I see this often . What are you going to learn from that stuff . You can read a label . Where to me go from here - Nitrogen , what is it and what does it do - same with phosphate - Potassium . I get the 3 , out of Fish Hydrolsate - Bat guano - Kelp - [ all are microbe foods too ] The thing to do is to look at there other nutrient inputs , Now here is some examples - . N - Charlie carp 10.1.6 - Bat Guano - P - Provides the ideal analysis of 12% P combined with 34.5% Calcium - K - Nitrogen (N) (as organic) 1.17% Phosphorus (P) (water soluble) 0.23% Potassium (K) (as organic) 19.12% Sulfur (S) 1.80% Magnesium (Mg) 0.37% Calcium (Ca) , you get the idea . This is what I can get , you will have products with the same sort of thing , This is where the trick is , The other bits they have in it . Molasses also is very good it is a microbe food . Now the big players here are the worms . Not a standard worm bin with kitchen scraps , but what they would feed on in the wild . Most food from supermarkets are very low on nutrition so the nutrition value to the worms is low as well . So I will stop here as I do not know your environment you live in , But if you are keen it can be done even in a big city .

For amendments--get a worm/compost bin going asap. Look up FFJ-Ferment Fruit Juice, FPE- Fermented Plant Extract How to make stuff with local ingredients. Use trimmings from your plants as mulch. Check out Leighton Morrison on Future Cannabis Project a soil scientist that speaks plain english He is on all the Living Soil Conversations. His Horizons system is real interesting and again is about using what you have in your own area

Thanks guys!
And @Sour D I really appreciate the references! Been reading all morning and watching the videos on the Horizonal system.

 

[elcoloan]

Just do this, plant a cover crop, let it cook and start a worm bin. It's simple.
I'm going to do something similar next month with my little tweaks for plans later this year.

Oh I wish these kind of brands were easily available here, and the ones that are i wish they were not so expensive. I have lots of experimenting to do!