Grow Mediums Questions on commercial grow equipment for startup.

[TxOld Dude]

Good morning, campers!

I have decided that when my state goes "med legal", I intend to be one of the very first to apply for the license/permit as a grower/supplier. I have questions about a small indoor commercial scale RDWC hydro rig; specifically dosing/injection control gear for nutrients and chillers. I've started looking at a site called FarmTek which seems to have a lot of gear...

What do I need? Pumps, controllers, sensors, etc.
What brands make reliable equipment?
What suppliers to get them from?

Any commercial growers out there? Please chime in.

Thanks!



Fish

 

[Muddy]

IMO I wouldn't consider anything but a Current Culture system. http://cch2o.com/. I did a ton of research before purchasing one of their 8 gallon, 8 site systems. I'm on my second grow now and while I'm still getting it dialed in, I couldn't be more pleased with it. I get the Growers Supply catalogs, they are part of FarmTek. You can find just about everything they sell cheaper at other places. For the CC systems, check here: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=current+culture. They will price match to any valid site. Paid $1,100 for mine with free shipping and it contains everything that you need with the exception of a top off res and a chiller. I'm using a 30 gallon plastic drum for my top off and a 1/10 hp chiller.

 

[SkatterBrayne]

Large pots of coco with automated multi feeds is definitely worth consideration, and is more forgiving to high temperatures as well as equipment failure.

I agree though, about current culture being one of the best options (Although I have no personal experience with it)

 

[TxOld Dude]

I was thinking of sticking to lower profile femmed autos, Dragons and such, from seed as I have no desire to clone photos. I could probably do well with a DIY NFT system for the easier maintenance (and clean up). Honestly though, that's not a bad price for a complete setup! Gonna consider that, Thanks!

Anyhow, the automation is my main deal, no matter the setup I end up with. This is where the real money is, besides lighting, and where going cheapo can kill the dream (and the garden!) fast. I plan on continuing my regular job for a while, until the kids graduate anyway, so I need a near bulletproof system. I've seen a couple of very nice pH/nutrient dosing systems at AmHydro, but they are near 3 grand for a 4 part automated dosing rig. I need to spend right the first time.



Fish

 

[Treehorn]

love automation and remote control/monitoring even more!! Been up and running with a semi-automated farm since last fall. Good reports considering this has been my first go at it. Started with some autos and finishing up the season with some photos -- should be wrapped up by mid june with a break for the super hot temps we have here. I have not seen a lot of 'commercial' growers use autos -- I suspect because of the yield and such. Should we get legal here in The Lone Star State, there will no doubt be a plant limit for caregivers/growers -- WA has already reduced the number of sq ft you can have so I turned to autos for quick-turn around (actually only 3 weeks less than autos) but I finish my season with photos in hopes that the harvest will hold me through the summer. Its SO much fun!!! As you might suspect, STEALTH is job 1 for me. Love to see them pass the Med MJ here but I too am an old dude and while I too plan to go legit, Id rather not wait and get my skill sets up. Costs to start up in friendly states have been high from what Ive read. States are imposing very tight inventory control systems which I'm sure will evolve into a more cost effective solution for growers. In any event, my best wishes for good luck to your plan. Tell me why you love autos... does the lower yield and THC levels concern you at all? This years election will help tell the tale. I hope it goes our way but in any event, we're looking at at least 36 - 48 months. I hope Im wrong but it too our state over a decade to get a lottery. For some this will be a real bone of contention. Anyway.... my entire 2 cents worth... keep the change.

 

[TxOld Dude]

Howdy Treehorn! And let me welcome you to AFN!

I'm an old photo guy and haven't even smoked an auto yet! I run a risk with the job by taking it up again, but it's the only thing that helps me sleep at night without being hung over. When the ole lady bailed years back, I decided to try it again. Hell, I didn't have insomnia back in the day when I was a hippy! I wonder if it was the smoke? Turned out I was right! But it took a long time to get back "inside" again. I've lived here near 14 years but I don't know anybody. Not a soul. I just work.

Man, I love growing! I love the smell all over the house! BUT, I gotta be careful. Just personal stash, then put it away til I need it again. Honestly though, when the time comes, I'd rather start with autos (preferably femmed and if the ain't? they will be!) just due to the ease of starting up and the process. No separate flowering areas and extra lighting expense. Autos veg and flower under the same time frames. Just change the bulbs when the time comes. I don't have the space for an indoor photo commercial farm in my current digs. I would like to try to keep it indoors as I have lupus and vitiligo and sunlight does harsh things to me. Photos require more space than I have to dedicate at the moment, but one can do a lot with the right auto strains. Some have a 60 day turn-around with high quality. Some have better yields. Hell, the breeders are working overtime and by the time Texas gets onboard, we'll have 45 day cycle high potency and high yield all in one. Ya never know.

Here at AFN there are several breeders who are working on med strains, or so I've gathered from reading the community posts. One of which is the "Dragon" line of autos. I'll be growing Stone Dragons for my personal needs for hyperactive insomnia, sleep apnea, and all the related neuropathies that go with lupus.

When the time comes I'll grow whatever the market requires that I can. I'm sure the normal growers can get better yields from photo clones, but I'll be more of the "part-timer" initially anyway as I need to keep the job as well for a little while longer. Hence the need for automation! I have good electrical and electronic skills and a penchant for digital switching circuits and networks. I'd like to step it up a notch by tying all the hydro functions back to the PC. Feed, pH, water; all of it. And of course... remote access and monitoring! Gotta go on vacation sometimes! Can't be "Thai'd" to the job!

But all this, of course, hinges on "going legal". I agree Texas will probably be one of the last and will have heavy restrictions and regulation when they do. But... Hey! Ya gotta pay to play! For me, I believe in doing the homework now and getting my head wrapped around the hardware requirements and all the variety of methods and systems available. Youtube is the best tool around for checking out ideas. Somebody's always doing something.

In the end...
Oh well. When my marital monetary obligations have been fulfilled, I'm moving anyway!


Peace!

Fish

 

[Muddy]

With the Current Culture systems you don't need a doser for nutrients. That's what the top off res does. I set the ppm in my top off slightly higher than the system so it replenishes the nutrients that are up taken by the plants. Keeps the pH and ppm very stable and I can generally go about 3 weeks between system changes. On a daily basis all I do is monitor the pH and ppm, so my time is reduced to about 15 minutes a day. A full system change takes about an hour, so maintaining these systems is not much work.

 

[TxOld Dude]

Hey Muddy!


Yeah, see? That's what I need!

What happens if you have to pull a pot out of the lineup for leaks or some such? Looks like rigid PVC piping (feeds?) on this rig. Are the pots valved individually? I guess one could add them if not. Rather that than drain the entire system for one pots leakage. Is the top-off attached to the float valve inlet? I assume so. That seems the logical place. And you have no problems maintaining pH and ppm levels for, say, a week untended (like for vacation)? Does calmag ever become an issue before the res is due for changeout?

Pardon all the questions. I could probably build one cheaper with buckets, BUT there's always security in the fact that someones got your back with a prefab if shit goes downhill or breaks. And I like the square buckets!



Fish

 

[Muddy]

These systems are constant recirculation, so there is no way to isolate an individual pot without stopping the circulation. That's where the R in RDWC comes in, recirculation. Yes, the PVC is rigid but the uniseals on the buckets aren't. I can actually move a pot a bit in one direction or the other and the seals don't leak. I'm running mine about 6 months now and no leaks.

Yes, the top off hooks up to the float valve on the epicenter. Automatically feeds the system as the plants uptake the water. The float can be adjusted to control how high the water is in the buckets. Their net pots have a raised center to set the rock wool on and they suggest keeping the water level below it by 1/4 to 1/2" so the rock wool doesn't stay soaking wet. I've been keeping the level about 1/4" below and it's working out fine.

This grow I'm running Pineapple Chunk and it's very nute sensitive, so I've had a harder time keeping the proper pH and PPM balance than I did the first grow. Seems I can't go above about 600 ppm without the pH starting to take a nose dive from overfeeding. Maybe once I do a few more grows and gain more confidence I'd consider leaving it unattended for a week, but I'm not there yet. I'm using RO water, so do have to add cal/mag to every system change. I also add it to the top off res so I'm replenishing the cal/mag as well as the nutrients.

Current Culture sells all the parts individually and some, like the uniseals, air and water pumps, are available at other sources. So yes, you could DIY one yourself. I've not done a cost comparison between buying and DIY, but I'm sure there would be a savings. Just not sure it would be enough to justify all the work involved in finding, ordering and properly constructing a DIY system.

 

[TxOld Dude]

The construction is easy. Between WalMart, the hardware store, and a store we have down here called Tractor Supply (a farm and ranch store), they have everything I need for an RDWC except the net pots themselves. Depending on if I use totes or kitty litter buckets (square), or 5 gal buckets on which style of net pots; standard or bucket lid types. The farm store has all the lines, plastic fittings (hose barbs, bulkheads, and such), float valves, etc. There's also a 4 bucket DWC system kit (same as my single) on Amazon for $100 that can be modified easily for RDWC (this is one route I was considering). Buy 2 and expand from 4 to 8. This would save a bit to use for monitoring gear.

All that being said...

I like the CCH2O setup and quality and it's nice having a manufacturer behind the product. But in the end, it all comes down to cost. Also, how's your bucket centering distance on the 8x8 (18" centers, I assume)? Do you find the need to stretch the system footprint to allow the plants more room between sites?

Seems I can't go above about 600 ppm without the pH starting to take a nose dive from overfeeding.

So THAT'S what's up with that! Had that happen a couple of times but wasn't sure why. NOW I got it! LOL!

Fish