New Grower Yellowing leaves / Plant health?

[InterestingTree]

Thanks again for the reply man.

Alright I'm gonna add the bloom in that I have, in combination with the PK 13/14. Also up my water frequency. The last two waters Mag has been added and Cal was added to today's feed/water.

I'll report back in a week with pictures to show how it's going and I'll try get better pictures actually.

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice, I appreciate it

 

[BII]

Your gnat problem is relatively simple to fix. Get most any Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) product, whether you break-up 'mosquito dunks' or use a more hydro-friendlly product such Microbe Lift/BMC (what I use). The harmless Bt bacteria feed on insect larvae.

 

[Waira]

... how dry did they get, to drooping? that may damage roots, and then a vicious circle starts with water/nute uptake, symptoms showing, more water feeds, with hurt roots which don't work well,..... too much water also causes drooping but for entirely different reasons,... keep the soil more evenly moist, less extreme cycling,...
that soil is a problem as well, imbalanced nutrient content to start with, and no other stuff going in initially makes for incomplete nutrition,.. plants can suffer defc.'s and lose size/yield before actual symptoms show,.. they have a slightly longer-termed starved look to them,... those fading lowers look like N defc., some of which is normal during bloom,... that 1-time shot of high N is no panacea for lack-of over long term growth,...
what's that 12-2-13 stuff? A bad ratio for cannabis, very high N, too low on P even for veg',... PK13/14 is fine ... OK, there are base nutes, usually grow and bloom,... PK boosters are a supplement, typically used in conjunction with bloom, or instead of depending on the NPK formula specifics, and often at dilute rates to prevent burning, ...and what the plant is telling you about how the buds are forming up, an experience judgement call there, along with what help other good eyes have! ... yours are setting OK, but a bit small,.. it's early though, so keep on the feeds just be careful of strength,..... Past a point, there's no magic in the nutes to fix things, or make a sudden change in the size and yields,... best you can do is feed her the right balance nute profile to make the most of what they will yield,... look into a good base bloom nutrient, something with a little N in it,...

 

[InterestingTree]

Your gnat problem is relatively simple to fix. Get most any Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) product, whether you break-up 'mosquito dunks' or use a more hydro-friendlly product such Microbe Lift/BMC (what I use). The harmless Bt bacteria feed on insect larvae.

Thanks for that BII. Sounds like what I need!

@Waira, also thanks for the great reply

Yup. This was the first time I let them get dry until the point of drooping. Approx 5-6 days. Too much. So I thought no problems I will water them asap. Then they drooped again on and off for the next 3-4 days. I was searching for 'Underwatering and then Overwatering' but doesn't seem to be common haha I was thinking a lot of different things but mainly what you said is what I couldn't explain and I reckon you're 100% spot on. I'm glad someone could verify it and now I know for sure my mistake. Luckily I escaped the vicious cycle and watering is now 3 days and almost twice as much. Plants look great for now and the smell has picked up tremendously!

Yeah the soil works but in a perfect world I would never use that barky organic crap again. I feel without being able to feed them often and in good doses and them relying on some slow release, they are a bit smaller in size (even despite their genetics) although with that being said.. my 3rd plant at Day 24 is taller than both of them haha! The nodes and stem look better too. It is in 1 gal plastic pot opposed to the other two in 3 gal fabric pots. Weird. I agree, I wasn't sure about that one time shot of high N. It was more me being cautious because of the soil and what could happen.

I read your post yesterday and have taken all advice humbly and have gotten a bloom nute aswell. I think she is doing well now. Watering and nutes are back on track, CalMg being fed also. Buds are forming nicely and trichomes coming aswell. I will post pics in few days. (Better ones).

what's that 12-2-13 stuff?

Hah... When I first got it, I thought "Wow this sounds awesome for a Veg nute" as time went on and I learnt more about nutes and ratios I realised it was a horrible ratio (for canna).

I know I asked about yield expectations and maybe Ganesha the elephant god knows but it's definitely something I've been trying to put last in my thoughts. The process of doing this has been the best part for me. Doing a mini botany/horticulture class for 2 months has been exciting. Its been good learning about plants in general. I find it very interesting and I look at every plant totally different now. Elements, environment, chemicals, processes so many different things. I reckon I have learnt more about other things than plant themselves actually and I feel it would be disrespectful and greedy to only think about the yield although it's good to have the fruits of your labour but I have gotten a lot more than that personally.

Also as far as lurking and strolling over forums every day AFN for me is the best forum I have been on and many thanks to the wise growers who have given me their advices and knowledge. Very grateful!

EDIT: The yellowing lower fan leaves have been trimmed off. The middle and upper fan leaves are also yellowing/green. Every other leaf and all the bud sites look great though. I can tell she is happy for now and I feel she is shedding these big leaves on purpose although I do think with better care she would have held onto them longer.

 

[the green bandit]

Thanks for that BII. Sounds like what I need!

@Waira, also thanks for the great reply

Yup. This was the first time I let them get dry until the point of drooping. Approx 5-6 days. Too much. So I thought no problems I will water them asap. Then they drooped again on and off for the next 3-4 days. I was searching for 'Underwatering and then Overwatering' but doesn't seem to be common haha [emoji3] I was thinking a lot of different things but mainly what you said is what I couldn't explain and I reckon you're 100% spot on. I'm glad someone could verify it and now I know for sure my mistake. Luckily I escaped the vicious cycle and watering is now 3 days and almost twice as much. Plants look great for now and the smell has picked up tremendously!

Yeah the soil works but in a perfect world I would never use that barky organic crap again. I feel without being able to feed them often and in good doses and them relying on some slow release, they are a bit smaller in size (even despite their genetics) although with that being said.. my 3rd plant at Day 24 is taller than both of them haha! The nodes and stem look better too. It is in 1 gal plastic pot opposed to the other two in 3 gal fabric pots. Weird. I agree, I wasn't sure about that one time shot of high N. It was more me being cautious because of the soil and what could happen.

I read your post yesterday and have taken all advice humbly and have gotten a bloom nute aswell. I think she is doing well now. Watering and nutes are back on track, CalMg being fed also. Buds are forming nicely and trichomes coming aswell. I will post pics in few days. (Better ones).

Hah... When I first got it, I thought "Wow this sounds awesome for a Veg nute" as time went on and I learnt more about nutes and ratios I realised it was a horrible ratio (for canna). [emoji3]

I know I asked about yield expectations and maybe Ganesha the elephant god knows but it's definitely something I've been trying to put last in my thoughts. The process of doing this has been the best part for me. Doing a mini botany/horticulture class for 2 months has been exciting. Its been good learning about plants in general. I find it very interesting and I look at every plant totally different now. Elements, environment, chemicals, processes so many different things. I reckon I have learnt more about other things than plant themselves actually [emoji3][emoji3] and I feel it would be disrespectful and greedy to only think about the yield although it's good to have the fruits of your labour but I have gotten a lot more than that personally.

Also as far as lurking and strolling over forums every day AFN for me is the best forum I have been on and many thanks to the wise growers who have given me their advices and knowledge. Very grateful! [emoji3]

EDIT: The yellowing lower fan leaves have been trimmed off. The middle and upper fan leaves are also yellowing/green. Every other leaf and all the bud sites look great though. I can tell she is happy for now and I feel she is shedding these big leaves on purpose although I do think with better care she would have held onto them longer.

Hey bud i would recommend leaving her yellowing fans leaves on in the future. They will still be providing photosynthesis for your gal, and act like a spare fuel tank if she runs low on nutes again. Also i woul be watering until I seen a little run off each time. Just my 2 cents

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[InterestingTree]

Thanks man. Yeah I didn’t want to at first and after a few snips I realised the stems were still vibrant and strong and full of sugar liquid. That makes perfect sense and I’ll be more careful to supply all the nutrients she needs now from here out.

The reason I did it was because I heard leaves like that can get mould sometimes and gnats/pests like dying leaves. Now I realise only a few were really brown/dying where as the rest were just yellow but still quite healthy looking.

Second reason was because I heard snipping some of the lower leaves will push more energy up towards bud sites. Sounds logical but probably isn’t true ha!

 

[the green bandit]

Thanks man. Yeah I didn’t want to at first and after a few snips I realised the stems were still vibrant and strong and full of sugar liquid. That makes perfect sense and I’ll be more careful to supply all the nutrients she needs now from here out.

The reason I did it was because I heard leaves like that can get mould sometimes and gnats/pests like dying leaves. Now I realise only a few were really brown/dying where as the rest were just yellow but still quite healthy looking.

Second reason was because I heard snipping some of the lower leaves will push more energy up towards bud sites. Sounds logical but probably isn’t true ha!

I don't think a bit of a prune here and there does any damage, but I would be cautious about taking to much of her while she is already stressed.

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[Waira]

... You're quite welcome mate!
--- underwatering makes the plant lose turgor pressure, hence the wilting,... overwatering cause the root to smother, starved for O2,.. not sure what the physiology there is behind the drooping response,... But the drying of soil also causes a pH shift, and if the soil is pretty loaded with nutes, they become relatively more conc. (because of less water dilution) and can lead to burning, osmotic trauma to roots,.... there's a great tool you must get, it'll really help prevent getting too dry/wet and measure the pH in-pot directly: the Accurate 8 soil pH probe->hsoil:-- long probe is the A8 unit here,..it also has a built in moisture meter,.. but I also recommend the "hefting" method for assessing water content of the pot... heft the pots when well watered, and when they are ready to be watered,... this will calibrate your senses for assessing moisture levels,... sometimes all you may need is a light surface watering, and the weight of the pot will tell you that, even if the top seems dry.... Anyway, a good pH meter (for liquids only), a basic TDS or EC meter for testing ppm's or equivalent, and the A8 will be very helpful for avoiding troubles down the road,.. by monitoring and adjusting your inputs, knowing your water sources' pH and hardness (TDS), and monitoring in-pot pH, you can avoid many related hiccups! It's a lot to take in at first, all this Chem 101 stuff with nutes, water, pH, TDS/EC ( measuring the same thing, TDS is an extrapolation of EC into ppm, instead of electroconductivity), but it's all highly relevant, and not rocket science at the basic growers level,... Ditto for the right-food, right-time thing with canna'!
If you are stateside, look into Roots Organic soils, original or 707 ( hotter),... Royal Gold King's Mix is my new favorite! Happt frog may do in a pinch, but have that A8 handy to test it out and make sure it isn't a shit-bag of acidic slag like OF usually is! .... Oh, if you want to try a nice product that's (nearly, IMO) "water only", look into Mephisto's stateside associate, GBD PM him here directly) and his dry mix-n soil amendment,.. you just mix it in the mild base soil, make a bottom half rich soil, top half reg. soil pot up and you're good to go,.. I say nearly becuase I find some mild PK boosting during bloom helps,plus i use a few other supplements... this is an organic mix, so the soil herd is KEY,.. inoculants are critical for organics whic rely on the microbes for breaking down and cycling of nute to make them available to the plant,... I also use humic-fulvic, a Silica product, a micronutrient specific product (Earth Juice Microblast is my fav'), and an enzyme product,... a root tonic (Superthrive, Jumpstart, BioRoot are examples) is wise too,... most of these you use occasionally, not all the time,....
Fan leaves hold some "mobile" nutrients in them, and when they star fading or spotting, etc. it's usually the first sign of a defc. starting, caused by lack-of, pH lockout, sometimes toxicity (too much of something),... moblie within the plant means that nutrient can be translocated from older established tissue to new grwoth where it's needed more, but not all are mobile,.... Look up the Defc. Pic Depot here, in the colored section above this one, and you'll see lots of good info-

 

[the green bandit]

@Waira thanks for taking the time to write such in depth replies in here. I spend a bit of time reading your responses in the infirmary and have learnt a great deal about how my plants work.