Lighting Adding more light

[leum]

Planning to double production to two plants at a time. Currently running Blackstar Chrome 180W through veg and bloom in five square-foot tent. Lamp has performed flawlessly for four+ years.

Should I just add a second Blackstar Chrome 180W? Model has been updated since, specs below, price is 300 USD. Is it still competitive with newer LED lamps? Hesitant to replace something that works so well. What about supplemental lighting? Two 90W lamps on either side should work, but would cost about the same, and I haven't found anything I like. Thanks.

- LED Chipset: 3w High Output – 60mil
- Number of LED's: 60
- Red/IR: 680nm, 660nm, 630nm
- White: 12000k
- Blue/UV: 425nm, 460nm

 

[AutoWonders]

I prefer one led light per plant, however, I have grown one led light over two plants many times. Being only 180w, though not terribly strong, you might consider trying it once with two plants, see how it goes. In fact I will be going back to two plants per light as soon as my last remaining zipper explodes, like it's mate already did. I'll be changing back to a 4x4 tent and back to 5 gallon smart pots for all plants.

 

[leum]

Thanks, @AutoWonders! Trying two plants under one light is a good idea. It would probably work - the Blackstar Chrome needs to be as high above the scrogged plant as I can get it, so it would cover the area. But I also want to maximize my yield, so I don't mind adding more light.

 

[BigSm0]

I'm happy it has worked well for you for so long. I know from experience that you are being held back by the cheaper leds they use in that panel and if you were to make any changes it should be to not add more watts but remove the light with extremely low par watts and swap it for something with a better efficiency number. I know this might come across as hard info to listen to but if your interested there is tons of info available on these specific leds used. Most positive comments are from growers who haven't used anything but these panels, That makes their judgement inaccurate.

 

[leum]

Thanks, @BigSm0, this is the discussion I want to have! In 2011, Blackstar seemed to be the best bang for the buck. LEDs were improving rapidly, so I figured I'd replace it with a much better lamp in a few years (that is, now). But it's still going strong, and I get a gram per watt, even considering the actual wattage is much lower (unknown). PAR was the strength of the Chrome series, and this lamp will burn plants if too close.

Amare's SolarECLIPSE and SolarSPEC appear to be about the same price in the 250 Wrange. Would you recommend one of these? Actual dimensions of tent are 3' x 1.7'.

 

[BigSm0]

Thanks, @BigSm0, this is the discussion I want to have! In 2011, Blackstar seemed to be the best bang for the buck. LEDs were improving rapidly, so I figured I'd replace it with a much better lamp in a few years (that is, now). But it's still going strong, and I get a gram per watt, even considering the actual wattage is much lower (unknown). PAR was the strength of the Chrome series, and this lamp will burn plants if too close.

Amare's SolarECLIPSE and SolarSPEC appear to be about the same price in the 250 Wrange. Would you recommend one of these? Actual dimensions of tent are 3' x 1.7'.

I'm happy to see your reply. Hand up and I come in peace so understand please I am only here to help and have gathered up allot of knowledge since I first started researching.

My goal to to help as many folks as I can when it comes down to lighting which is such a terrible market.

As you mentioned par being good in the older lights is another questionable subject. Different temperature/color leds show higher par numbers on testing equipment then other color/temperatures. I believe green which is not physically seen in these red and blue lights IS present and said to have the highest impact. Reflectors and optics in general can be used differently to increase these numbers. There is allot more to it than just this. Par mappings/readings are very unfair as a comparison. Maybe @pop22 knows more about this than I do. What I mean by par is the par wattage an not ~umole readings when tested with a par meter. (As lights are tested with a meter they give off numbers in ~umoles) Par watts is referred to as photons to heat ratio or efficiency. This is very important as this ratio is one of the most important and most over looked factor. I refer back to a test I saw on Kind Led which also uses the same epistar leds as black dog, mars, apollo, and most less expensive lights in the market today. The Kind came back at 22.5% efficient. Meaning for every 100wall watts 22.5 were light and 77.5 were heat. This number is disgusting if you ask me based on their price. Most of these lights show high par numbers but their output is actually much lower than you would expect.

 

[BigSm0]

Wow I almost confused myself re-reading that. Basically par watts is the ratio of heat to light and panels with epistar leds typically have much lower numbers. As an alternative the only way I know how to increase these numbers and give your plants more light for less wattage is to use different leds. For instance Cree leds depending on the model are known to hit somewhere in the 50-60% efficiency range. Hps which is known to be hot is also in the same range as epistar 20-30% efficiency. Cree leds are also very expensive and you need allot of them to equal a high wattage. That's why Cree based led lights are so much more expensive. This is also why diy cob lighting is becoming so popular. You can have the same efficiency as Cree leds with Cree cobs with much less parts and labor. 10-15 leds vs 1 cob. For your light you could easily convert it into a cob based light and I am spending allot of time over in the diy lighting section helping others convert their lights. If diy is not your thing I would strongly recommend amare. They do have less expensive panels and also Cree led panels. With afn discount there is also 20% off.

 

[derek420colorado]

Hey @BigSm0 Have you seen the 42% efficient DE HPS called the revolution? If so what are your thoughts, I mean if we are all trying to hit that magic 50% mark that I hear so often isn't that pretty darn close and for a 1000 watt(up to 1150) with 150,000 lumens going to be the best bang for your buck? Here is the link, if you scroll down the first page you can download the CSA light test, pretty good stuff http://revolutionmicro.com/revolution-products/

 

[BigSm0]

Hey @BigSm0 Have you seen the 42% efficient DE HPS called the revolution? If so what are your thoughts, I mean if we are all trying to hit that magic 50% mark that I hear so often isn't that pretty darn close and for a 1000 watt(up to 1150) with 150,000 lumens going to be the best bang for your buck? Here is the link, if you scroll down the first page you can download the CSA light test, pretty good stuff http://revolutionmicro.com/revolution-products/

I'm familiar with the light but not with those high efficiency numbers. That's amazing if it's true. Cobs can hit just over 60% but are pretty expensive at those high numbers. If a 1000w hps is close that's well worth the money.

 

[leum]

1000 watt is too much for me - looks cool though. DIY's a possibility. I suppose I could also add a few COBs separately.