New Grower Advanced Biodiesel Mass - Basic Setup

[Ottopilotti]

Hi Folks,

New to AFN and this is my first grow journal - starts with a problem that I hope I have solved - fingers crossed!

I have had fungus gnats - think they came either courtesy of my compost or my far to close garden on a windy hill.

I have given the girls a Neem oil root drench, top dressed with a sterilized sharp sand/sieved compost mix (you can do it in the oven in a none reactive container - ceramic or aluminum - don't go over 200C/ 392F - creates plant toxic compounds apparently - don't use a manure compost - heh! heh! - is smelly enough! Ten minutes of steam will kill most of the nasties.) and covered the drainage holes with a fine gauge ladies tight. Two days and gnats are no longer present.

But my girls look real stunted. They are perfectly formed and have preflowers and no nute deficiencies - BUT they are already 4 weeks old! I don't even know for sure if the gnats have caused my problem...I know some plants are slow starters...but this is now worrying....
I'll have to start some new beans if it goes on for longer (and the gnats have gone!)

The question is will they make the grade?
The strain is very robust and gives the yield I need from my humble set-up - have used it before with these beans and everything went Jim Dandy!
If I had lockout then I don't think these plants would still be alive...

Any thoughts and tips would be very welcome!

I've upped the light cycle from 18/6 seedling regime (two lights) to 20/4 (four lights) in the second week. I always like to give them a few hours rest...but may have to go 24/0 to keep them vegging as long as possible. And hold off on the flowering nutes...




My sad but sturdy girls at four weeks...
images 16/11/13

Setup
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Advanced Biodiesel Mass
beans planted direct in soil
germinated 16/10/13
ambient temp 30C/86F (soil mix was a little damp)
(I never wet germinate - straight into the soil)

Basics
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12 liter / 3 gallon pots
4x65 watt grow cfl's
2x 2700 + 2x 6400

Light
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Started at 18/6 for seedlings (two cfl's - 65W - 2700 / 6400)

2nd/3rd week up to 20/4 (four cfl's - 65W - 2700 / 6400)

I use full spectrum throughout.

(manufacturer states 325 watt equivalent wattage
I haven't measured the lumens and apparently they lose 25%
efficiency in the first few hundred hours)

Walls are white and I have styrofoam sheets as reflectors.
(good properties compared to expensive mylar products)

Soil
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Quality Seedling Compost - I use it for all
grows - auto's and ps - (it is very fluffy but may have
been a bit wet when making my mix)
Sharp Sand
I also use a quality Mycorrhizal Fungi - this has worked really well
for all my last grows...auto's / ps in- and outdoors
( it is really worth a try - after chopping I check my rootballs
and they are not hugging the pot perimeter - it is like
teddy bear stuffing...use it every grow...)

(I usually use 30% coir but omitted it this grow to see how the plants
did without it. I hate perlite because I recycle in the back garden and
it is such ugly stuff! The mineral benefits of vermiculite don't seem valuable
enough at the price of the damn stuff! So I very quickly stopped using both...)

Water/PH
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I have fantastic tap water - which stands for at least 24 hrs before use
- it then has a PH range between 6.0/6.5. I don't usually measure run off etc.
because I use minimum nutes and try keep it organic as far as possible.

Nutes
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I don't have a grow shop locally and I like to use my local garden center to
inform my decisions about fertilizing.
I use Growth Technologies Orchid fertilizer range and have never had a problem.
Working on the logic that most autos are very sensitive to nutrient imbalances.
I use a Seaweed fertilizer with sequestered iron as a supplement.
I'm still on a major learning curve with all my gardening and this seems to work
perfectly for me...up to now I have never had any serious nute problems with my
other grows...
(not these plants but if I have really tough looking plants I may boost the
nitrogen with an organic 30/30/30 fertilizer - but I've never overdone it...)

Here is the spec - it's for orchids but has worked great in the past:



Space
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3ft (1 meter) by 3ft by 5ft (1.5 meter)
open and well ventilated and clean space
I have a fan running 15mins every half an hour - it
is quite windy in there - but it promotes growth and
strength as far as I know...
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Okay - hope this is useful/interesting,
Will update in a few days...

Ottopilotti

 

[wwwillie]

Hello and welcome to AFN!!
I am a brand new grower so I am sorry to say have nothing to add other than enthusiasm.
However I am putting two of these Biodeisel Mass beans in just this morning. I left them to soak overnight.
So all the best to you, I'm subbed up and along for the ride!!

 

[Herbfulness]

Everything seems alright. I have temperatures of 32c average and my plants still make it out alive but i guess it does affect their growth. Are you doing an wet/dry cycle for it's watering ? The plant looks healthy but small. Mine at week 4 was really small too but then since it's alive, i rather let it go on and see what i get in the end. I have insects around my pot and soil too and it's hard getting rid of them (glad you did) but then they don't really affect much and i try to get rid as much as i can. Goodluck with your grow buddy

 

[Renaissance Redneck]

Nice looking gals, Otto! :High 5:
At 4 weeks, they do seem pretty small... I wonder if your nutes during veg are a bit heavy on the P and K side.
I'm on my 1st grow, so no expert, but my main veg nute (besides compost tea) comprised of a 5-1-1 fish emulsion.
Larger doses of P and K are more for the flowering/post stretch period, and overdoing these can slow or stop vegetative growth in favor of flowering.
Autos aren't just sensitive to deficiencies, they're just plain sensitive!
Some must read links for ya:
https://www.autoflower.org/f44/life-cycle-auto-flowering-cannabis-5113.html
https://www.autoflower.org/f44/when-harvest-autos-your-leaves-will-tell-you-4889.html
https://www.autoflower.org/f44/new-growers-guide-grow-@-lowes-[easy-dirt-guide-]-16495.html
No worries, friend, these little gals are worth the effort! :tiphat:

 

[Ottopilotti]

Thanks All for the info/support.

Today - I have noticed a change in height - not worth a photo though...
I have put two new beans in:

Auto Candy Kush
Delicious il Diavolo

I just can't judge what the Advance Bio Mass are going to do - so a
contingency plan seemed sensible.

I made the same soil mix as for the Adv. Bio Mass but added a
40% coir compost. (my usual mix)

I suspect that leaving out the coir for the Adv. Bio Mass has led to
waterlogging/lockout issue along with the gnat problem.

so...40% coir/40% seedling mix/20% sharp sand +Mycorrhizal Fungi
This mix was much fluffier.

I'll post some photos when the new plants emerge.

Otto

 

[Ottopilotti]

Greetings and Thanks RR,

At 4 weeks, they do seem pretty small... I wonder if your nutes during veg are a bit heavy on the P and K side. I'm on my 1st grow, so no expert, but my main veg nute (besides compost tea) comprised of a 5-1-1 fish emulsion.

I'm definitely a learner - I used to try and keep houseplants - they always died!

That looks like a lot of nitrogen to me - but looking at your grow journal I see you were
more careful with your soil mix and ferts.

- I have used the ferts from Growth Technology before, mainly for the learning curve
and convenience, without any problems. But I suppose this is an issue with auto phenotypes - because the breeding happens so quickly you may still get those generational gene skips that means you can get genetic regressions and bad gene expressions.

I must admit that the K value is quite high on my grow fertilizer. My understanding of
the cycle is that when I move to my flowering stage my P values could be much higher than
they are. (I eat a lot of bananas and they are full of phosphorus - wondering if there was a
way to make tea from them...will investigate...seems to be a lot of K in there too...
so maybe not...any good tea recipes for a phosphorus boost?)

I've read of people completely cutting the N at the flowering stage, others just keeping
it low - they are still growing so cutting it right out doesn't seem a good idea to me.

Also I read somewhere - that people underestimate the importance of potassium -
it is the catalyst the plant needs to make the sugars and proteins it needs to grow -
bit like the transport system - plus good for beneficial critters and friendly fungi in the
root system. (I'm sure it is much more complicated than this!)

I suppose my having a single component system like this does not allow for much fine tuning.
I've have never really boosted the nitrogen - but I'll put a K boost into what I have for true flowering.
Being a vegetable and herb gardener I'm used to using my instincts - I have good
knowledge about that and don't really have the need to resort to too much fine tuning.

I guess the difference between normal outdoor ps gardening and indoor
auto is quite significant. If something goes wrong then the window for correction is so
much smaller...preparation and more detailed biology knowledge is everything.

I don't have much room (or budget) for experimentation - right now I'm maxing with
four plants and three strains.
But I love the learning process - mounted a small electric oil radiator on the wall today -
just on a timer but adequate controls - maybe I'll get a thermostat - as it gets
colder I can control the temperature much more easily.

I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the stuff on AFN - you start over analyzing - take me a while to
get all this into those aging grey cells.

Have done without before but will be getting various measuring devices this week.

Thanks for the links - I have read a lot of stuff posted by Muddy before I joined AFN - has
been really useful!

Otto

ps. here's the chart for any casual browsers:

 

[Ottopilotti]

Wet/Dry Cycle

Hey Killernecrox,

Are you doing an wet/dry cycle for it's watering?

After the Neem root drench I gave them (I added a small amount of ferts to the mix) I won't be watering them for a week or two - they are in big pots so there is plenty of food and water in there for these tiny girls - but they already look like they are perking up.

To be honest with you I don't know 100% that they are fungus gnats - don't have a microscope - my lupe is only 30x. (next item to get!)
The gnats themselves don't do any harm - spiders probably love them 'cos they are really wonky fliers!

But the larvae eating the roots of my young plants may be the cause of the stunting - one female fly lays up to 100 eggs - that is a lot of larvae that you won't be able to stop if it is left untreated!

I guess if you have plants that are further into the grow a minor infestation is less problematic if there is an established root ball.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

Otto

 

[Ottopilotti]

Three Days after Fungus Gnat Treatment

Quick Update - 30 days now (sigh!)
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They look like they are recovering - as much from the rough treatment as from the fungus gnats - little bit of yellowing on the lower leaves - couple of drops of fert on the leaves too! Discernible stretching going on...I've also moved them a little further away from the lights to encourage stretching (from 7cm/3inch to 10cm/4.5inch) - think there is enough of a 'canopy' developing to allow that (I know - it is very sad!)
I have always LSTed my plants - this will be the first time without.



These girls still look feisty - and we've had
lots of positive AFN vibes...
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And a mini propagator example for the new beans -
Made sure this soil mix was a lot drier and fluffier.



Not exactly a perfect way to start up a control test -
but I'll be interested to see how the new ones get on
in the slightly corrected environment.

Otto

 

[wwwillie]

Things are progressing well. Look's like a major hurdle has been passed by, congrats. :dance2:
Love the little dome, I did the same with mine hoping to create the right environment for germinating.

 

[Ottopilotti]

Update
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Just got my measuring devices through the post. I haven't used any up to now so I
was rather interested to see what my values were and if that was the cause of
my problems. Here they are - I was quite pleased to see that all the basics were
about right:

Soil Ph at the roots is 5.8 - 6.2
(two different pots)

Four lights each with 1200 lumens
(surprisingly the older cfl's have hardly lost any intensity
maybe certain bandwidths of light drop off - don't know)

So my green thumb seems to be working okay...