can someone help with my battered and bruised Ogre please? multiple issues

[Waira]

Dendrite-- I think this is Zn defc going on,.. did it start at the tops, and move down? ...might be more than one thing going on too, maybe N defc., but I'll need pics pf the lowers and side of plant to tell, as well as a couple close-ups of these leaves,... N defc. always starts down low, because it's very mobile within the plant, and gets translocated upward to support new growth,.. Zn is not,... N defc. typically causes overall paling of the leaf, veins and all,... this pattern fits Zn defc. best, but P can do a similar thing, BUT usually with necrotic spotting along the margins near the "teeth",.... you'll need a good dedicated micronutrient supplement to battle this,... a foliar spray might even be called for, if done very carefully...we'll tell you how! Zn defc. can really mess with yields, so getting on this fast will be wise,... What nutrients are you currently using, and what's the soil pH? ..gotta make sure that's not outta whack before we treat this!

 

[dendrite007]

Dendrite-- I think this is Zn defc going on,.. did it start at the tops, and move down? ...might be more than one thing going on too, maybe N defc., but I'll need pics pf the lowers and side of plant to tell, as well as a couple close-ups of these leaves,... N defc. always starts down low, because it's very mobile within the plant, and gets translocated upward to support new growth,.. Zn is not,... N defc. typically causes overall paling of the leaf, veins and all,... this pattern fits Zn defc. best, but P can do a similar thing, BUT usually with necrotic spotting along the margins near the "teeth",.... you'll need a good dedicated micronutrient supplement to battle this,... a foliar spray might even be called for, if done very carefully...we'll tell you how! Zn defc. can really mess with yields, so getting on this fast will be wise,... What nutrients are you currently using, and what's the soil pH? ..gotta make sure that's not outta whack before we treat this!

yes, the issue started at the top and sort of worked down. it seems to effect the main stem most , which is the one right to one side as its been trained low to the ground. and it effects the tops of the other branches as well. pretty much in order that they formed so the older branches ( the bottom nodes on a traditional vertical plant) do show more of the motteling from the tips. the newer growth in the middle that sprung up last shows less although it is progressing and you cant see it properly under the photos, either the flash or the grow lights hide it or, or without the flash it gets blurry at this time of night under house lights. never the less i have added some more photos below and will try and get some more without the flash tomorrow when its light if u need.

there is deffo a nitrogen issue going on, it was a bit hot a month or so ago hence the tips burning lower down and the tips curling, since then it has become deficient given the lower yellowing u can see in a photo below where i have spread the branches out a bit the other day. i plan to increase to 2/3 nitrogen next to to address this issue.

ph going in is about 6.4. after feeds added, i havnt checked run-off but flushed 2 weeks ago just in case .

i can get to the hydro store before next watering if need be, but its a small store.
my current collection of bottles is. root stim, ph up and down, biogrow, biobloom, babay bbio, dutch pro bloom A&B, shooting powder, magnacal

roughly she was fed full dose root stim for 3 weeks, then 1/2 dose biogrow, then 1/2 dose bbabybio + full dose magnacal. then i maintained the same + added 1/2 dose shooting powder and 1/2 dose top max. i flushed because i was unsure, it didnt help so i fed the same again last 2 times but went back to 1/2 dose magnacal. seems to drink well regardless tbh



thanks for your responce, here are some more photos but i cant do them without artificial light at this time of night so will have to post a few more tomorrow in normal light if u need. . . o, and its not my only plant, im trying to go perpetual so if its a total mess in the end the loss should be obsorbed anyway so no big deal + i learn loads about what happen when u push an auto too fan under tiny lights. lol its been fun.

(this might look weird but its the back thats squashed too tight to the back wall and gets no light thats all. imagine how well this ogre could do with lights all around it!

(prob a different issue, not sure)

(again this curl probably another issue a few weeks ago that might not be related and resolved now?)


thanks for any more help u can provide,
never tried an auto this size before, and might be insane under my tiny lights, but its been a learning experiance.

 

[Heavily Medicated]

I think you have multiple symptoms, most likely caused by the soil pH being way too low due to salt buildup in the soil.. Do you have an Accurate 8 probe so you can test the soil pH directly? I may be wrong, but it looks like early stages of lock out. How much water did you use when you flushed a couple weeks ago? 3 times the volume of the pot is recommended. That would be 9 gallons for a 12 liter pot. I use FloroKleen to help remove the salt build up in the soil. I think to works great for me. Helps break bonds between the salt residue and the soil particles so the salts become soluable again and can be either used by the plant, or washed out during flushing. This is my two pennies worth, hope it helps.

 

[dendrite007]

dam, now your making me rethink it was something i had ruled out. i do have a ph pen, but i havnt checked ph run off but will do that next watering. im pretty sure its not salt build up effecting ph. its only been fed a handfull of times and i there is always a little run through each time. The soil could have been out to start to with i guess, and this one was re-potted into a 12lt pot with a new batch of all mix soil from a different shop.
the other thing that leads me to rule this out is she is still drinking at a decent rate, and lockout i have found in the past with photos slows the rate of drinking significantley until flushed. flushing made no differance here. i flushed with about 15lt of water

 

[dendrite007]

more photos with sunlight rather than artificial...

 

[Waira]

Hey bud!... good pics,... yeah, Zn, some K defc. too,.. not so much N, I think- least of the probs here!... but many of the dead leaves are so far gone I can't read them...light deprivation/smothering can cause similar effects too, and mashed against the sidewall like it's been, fits the the bill,.... I didn't see a good micronute' source in your stash, alas! It's good that she's drinking well though,..means things are moving around in there at least... certainly a fresh pH check would be wise; Fe, Zn, Cu, Mn are poorly available under even mild alkaline pH's,.... can you get a good dedicated micronute' product at your local store?

 

[Happy Horticulturist]

Looks like Zinc to me. Possibly feeding 1/2 strength nutes wasn't enough for this one.

I'm semi familiar with BioBizz soil and nutrients. I grow a couple of really nice harvest with them a few years back.

To me I think your problem stems from the fact you are using too many different products from different ranges.

If I were you, next time I'd just use the BioBizz All Mix and follow their nutrient schedule on their website. That's what I did when I first started growing in soil. As a beginner I learn't to grow in hydro then years later I switched to soil when I started growing again. To make it easy I just followed the BioBizz range.

The fact your adding this that and the other thing isn't helping you in my opinion. Better to stick to one basic feeding schedule all from the same brand until you can figure out the more subtle aspects of deficiencys and pH etc.

If you are to use the ALL MIX grow schedule in the middle of this image with just...
Root Juice then BioGrow then BioBloom + TopMax you'll do really well.

No need for babay bbio, dutch pro bloom A&B, shooting powder, magnacal.

Keep it simple

Edit : Like Waira says the dead leaves and yellowing of the lower of the plant are purely from smoothering / not enough light. If the plant realises the lower leaves aren't getting light, then the leaves can't do their job and they're a useless waste of energy. Better to suck the energy out of the leaves and transport it to the higher leaves, especially if the plant is suffering nutrient problems as currently is.

Sorry I can't help you more than that. To me that plant is kinda so far gone I'd give up on it and concentrate on how I can do things better next time. Getting micronutrients and fixing the pH and stuff at this stage will stop the plant from getting worse, but it's not going to get any better.

 

[dendrite007]

Hey bud!... good pics,... yeah, Zn, some K defc. too,.. not so much N, I think- least of the probs here!... but many of the dead leaves are so far gone I can't read them...light deprivation/smothering can cause similar effects too, and mashed against the sidewall like it's been, fits the the bill,.... I didn't see a good micronute' source in your stash, alas! It's good that she's drinking well though,..means things are moving around in there at least... certainly a fresh pH check would be wise; Fe, Zn, Cu, Mn are poorly available under even mild alkaline pH's,.... can you get a good dedicated micronute' product at your local store?

thanks for the input, you are right, i am missing a good micro source as i havnt had this problems before. do you have any recommendations about which to get? i do have a local hydro store, but its a bit of a small one and doesnt seem very good.

as for the yellowing lower down, it was more a case of the smothering i think, those leaves lower that are now orangy yellow were a more dark withered green colour untill i opened up the branches and shone light down there. within a day they all went crispy and yellow.

im trying to stay confident. the last lots of branches to grow on it just before flower dont actually show the symptoms at the top of the others, and from what i have read you are better of watching the branches that had no symptoms than looking at the ones that are already gone as they will never recover.

 

[dendrite007]

Looks like Zinc to me. Possibly feeding 1/2 strength nutes wasn't enough for this one.

I'm semi familiar with BioBizz soil and nutrients. I grow a couple of really nice harvest with them a few years back.

To me I think your problem stems from the fact you are using too many different products from different ranges.

If I were you, next time I'd just use the BioBizz All Mix and follow their nutrient schedule on their website. That's what I did when I first started growing in soil. As a beginner I learn't to grow in hydro then years later I switched to soil when I started growing again. To make it easy I just followed the BioBizz range.

The fact your adding this that and the other thing isn't helping you in my opinion. Better to stick to one basic feeding schedule all from the same brand until you can figure out the more subtle aspects of deficiencys and pH etc.

If you are to use the ALL MIX grow schedule in the middle of this image with just...
Root Juice then BioGrow then BioBloom + TopMax you'll do really well.

No need for babay bbio, dutch pro bloom A&B, shooting powder, magnacal.

Keep it simple

thanks for the input, someone on a different forum said similar about keeping it simple and not mixing nutrients.

i started with biobiz all mix and just bloom on my first grow. massive N def. next time added grow and topmax and it was a bit better. only got decent results when i mixed other stuff in last time like i have this time and on my other 2 this time, so im hesitant to switch back to biobiz only and might end up getting the dutch pro vege and just try their range for a while. maybe with a bit of topmax as that stuff seems pretty good, despite some of the rather poor comments i read about it

 

[Happy Horticulturist]

I'd stick with one range or the other mate. Dutch Pro is very good. But I've had a great grow on the full BioBizz range. The first time I did All Mix with Root Juice, then BioGrow, then BioBloom and TopMax and I got some nice buds. I was growing with my environment dialled in and I was feeding them as per the schedule (i.e I wasn't feeding half strength all along and then throwing in a bit of magnecal+ and a bit of whatever else) and it worked really really well.

Having the nutrients even 10-20% off can make a BIG difference.

If I were you I'd pick one nutrient range and stick with it until you work things out.

Perhaps try the Plagron AllMix medium and nutrient range instead? Or go with the Dutch Pro range.

As for calmag, yes have it on hand, but I wouldn't be adding it unless the plants needed it, or you were using LED's that drained the calcium from the plants.