DWC Deficiency

[Mr Green Fingers]

As far as I have understood and experienced, cannazym does not affect the taste in this way. It is my go-to enzyme for now and I use it with all strain I grow and I've had very much variety between the strains and their flavors. I think it is very good to run enzymes and / or beneficial bacteria in your reservoir to ward off diseases and bad bacteria. Ahh...BTW I happened to remember just now that Canna Vega and Flores both already have silica added to them so if you didn't know that, adding extra silicone is not necessary.

I am sure if you just do your curing in the end right, the buds will gain their full aroma their terpinoid profile will deliver. I think with 0.5 EC water 1.5 EC sounds about perfect at this stage and lets hope it will do the job.

Raising the lights sounds like good idea just to allow her a breather at least. Keep on updating the situation in couple days and lets hope all will turn out well!

Thanks Med so I have been adding Silicone for no reason this whole time lol, in regards to the cannazym I think I will continue with it for this grow as don't want to shock the roots at this stage now and I will probably throw down another SOL and run a sterile res just for my piece of mind!

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

View attachment 884499 .... Cheers Chro'! I'm not that hydro savvy myself but lets see,... I think that pH hiccup and the EC jump were behind this,... weird, looks like K defc. on the upper leaves, (browned out margin teeth),.. or ironically, K toxicity which causes the same symptoms! The other spots could be Ca or Mn defc., but too generic to tell just yet,.... I wonder at the EC going up?? Could be from evaporation from the res', and/or the plants taking in more water than nutes-?

bingo. happens to me a lot.

@Waira @fettled6 @MedGrower , thank you guys for taking the time to have a look, I definitely agree with the rising EC and PH issues are the main reason behind this and I think maybe I have become a bit complacent and have been letting my res levels get to low, I have raised the light to 24 inches, bought down my EC to 1.5 where she was last happiest at and I will do a complete res change tomorrow.

that ought to do it. I have let mine go down many times during a grow and they recover fast. At peak I was adding 10 gallons a day at 1.5 EC.

As far as I have understood and experienced, cannazym does not affect the taste in this way. It is my go-to enzyme for now and I use it with all strain I grow and I've had very much variety between the strains and their flavors. I think it is very good to run enzymes and / or beneficial bacteria in your reservoir to ward off diseases and bad bacteria. Ahh...BTW I happened to remember just now that Canna Vega and Flores both already have silica added to them so if you didn't know that, adding extra silicone is not necessary.

I am sure if you just do your curing in the end right, the buds will gain their full aroma their terpinoid profile will deliver. I think with 0.5 EC water 1.5 EC sounds about perfect at this stage and lets hope it will do the job.

Raising the lights sounds like good idea just to allow her a breather at least. Keep on updating the situation in couple days and lets hope all will turn out well!

Solid.

I go sterile at first, but due to a large volume rez system, I started adding hydroguard to battle the slime and subsequent pH swings and cut out most organics. Just some GP heavyw8 and earth juice up and down.

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

bingo. happens to me a lot.



that ought to do it. I have let mine go down many times during a grow and they recover fast. At peak I was adding 10 gallons a day at 1.5 EC.



Solid.

I go sterile at first, but due to a large volume rez system, I started adding hydroguard to battle the slime and subsequent pH swings and cut out most organics. Just some GP heavyw8 and earth juice up and down.

Thanks man, I will carry on with the cannazym for this grow at least and see how it turns out, I am just a bit paranoid that the smell from my tent is exactly the same as my first grow which turned out great and the buds look and taste good but one of the reasons I started this awesome hobby was for variety so I am hoping aroma and taste wise this bud is totally different to the first

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

Thanks man, I will carry on with the cannazym for this grow at least and see how it turns out, I am just a bit paranoid that the smell from my tent is exactly the same as my first grow which turned out great and the buds look and taste good but one of the reasons I started this awesome hobby was for variety so I am hoping aroma and taste wise this bud is totally different to the first

Now that I've grown a pounder it's time to make growing easier. I'm leaning towards smaller rez and make it easier to change out water. I'm getting tired of the labor for a 30 gallon run. Smaller will be easier.

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

Now that I've grown a pounder it's time to make growing easier. I'm leaning towards smaller rez and make it easier to change out water. I'm getting tired of the labor for a 30 gallon run. Smaller will be easier.

I can imagine! Even my single 6 gallon bucket starts becoming hard work after week 7 or 8 which is why I get tempted just to continually top up rather then do a complete res change, really I need a pump to pump the solution out but I like to completely wash out my buckets each res change to get rid of any salt build up etc

 

[Olde School Player]

@Waira, @ChroToker, late for the party, apologies, didn't get the invite until today. I was busy being lazy....
I scanned all comments, good stuff, so this might be reiterations. You're DWC, hydroton / corn / grow rocks, and I believe I read something about 6 gallon buckets, so that answers reservoir size. I don't see any info on aeration, are you maintaining strong bubbling? Just to be sure the airstone didn't foul. Especially with beneficials this is a must.
Tap water at 0.5EC which translates to 250ppm; that's typically going to mostly be calcium & magnesium so I would cut back on cal-mag additives.
I run RO and when I add 2.5mL Cal-mag and 1mL Si I get 250ppm. I need 4mL / gallon cal-mag to maintain no deficiency symptoms, along with my GH-Flora Micro which also has cal-mag in unknown PPM amounts. So my best math says reduce cal-mag to 0.5mL/L (2mL per gallon).
IF an excess of CalMag worked its way into the picture, that is probably what caused your pH crash, and then lockout screws up everything else.
I don't know Canna nutes so I'll leave it to yours and others' thoughts to look at the cal-mag contents of your micronutrients. If you see sensible amounts of cal-mag there, you could go back even more. But I HAVE seen cal-mag deficiencies with as little as 3mL / gal. cal-mag supplementation in RO. 4mL has fixed all my problems with no excess to worry.
As to Si, I never leave home without it. Really seems to help with heat stress among other things. The $64 question is, how much is present in your nutes? I start with 1mL / gallon / 4 liters in veg and move up to 2mL / gallon in bloom. A few weeks before harvest I cut it out entirely. Just as a baseline if it helps, my RO water with 4mL cal-mag and 2mL Si per gallon, comes in at 0.7ec / 350ppm. Without any heat stress (your temps were great at 73 / 67, so I would be comfortable at going to 1mL / gal., or even eliminating Si completely since you are already well into bloom and there's no heat stress to worry with.

Another question about water. You say 0.5ec; do you have a water softener? That strips all the cal-mag but the sodium ion exchange keeps the ec / ppm's high, lulling you into a false sense of security for cal-mag. You don't NEED RO, it's just easier to keep track of exactly what's in your nutrients that way. But, if there is a softener in the equation, bypass it or find a non-softened outlet to draw your water from. Hard water's fine, and the small bit of chlorine in municipal supplies is frankly over-rated for problem causes. Plus you're bubbling anyway to remove that from the problem list.
Light - is it 900W at the wall or is that assuming LED's driven at 100%? Just curious, you already raised it some. Question is more for some other research I'm doing on light height Vs plant stretch.
Absolutely do NOT worry about the beneficial bacteria and the earthy smell. If you have root rot it will STINK. And the slime will be nasty shit... err, more like snot. Strong aeration, control of reservoir / bucket temps, and some good beneficials are the answer to prevention.
If you haven't already, dump and restart with a fresh nute solution just in case there was a cal-mag / Si imbalance causing the pH swing. She still looks healthy & I believe she will be fine.
Mid term, like next grow, if I were you I would go to a simple recirculating DWC setup. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to manage your nutrients when all you need to do is pop the lid on your reservoir and work away. And it's easier to keep aeration in an RDWC as there are no roots to wrap around the airstone or otherwise funk it up. A $15 pump, an $8 - 16 reservoir (size dependent), some 1/2" hydro tubing, a few grommets and connectors and you're all set. And if you keep the reservoir outside your tent, it's much easier to maintain friendly reservoir temps.

That's all I can think of for now, your girl will be fine. Check back later.

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

@Waira, @ChroToker, late for the party, apologies, didn't get the invite until today. I was busy being lazy....
I scanned all comments, good stuff, so this might be reiterations. You're DWC, hydroton / corn / grow rocks, and I believe I read something about 6 gallon buckets, so that answers reservoir size. I don't see any info on aeration, are you maintaining strong bubbling? Just to be sure the airstone didn't foul. Especially with beneficials this is a must.
Tap water at 0.5EC which translates to 250ppm; that's typically going to mostly be calcium & magnesium so I would cut back on cal-mag additives.
I run RO and when I add 2.5mL Cal-mag and 1mL Si I get 250ppm. I need 4mL / gallon cal-mag to maintain no deficiency symptoms, along with my GH-Flora Micro which also has cal-mag in unknown PPM amounts. So my best math says reduce cal-mag to 0.5mL/L (2mL per gallon).
IF an excess of CalMag worked its way into the picture, that is probably what caused your pH crash, and then lockout screws up everything else.
I don't know Canna nutes so I'll leave it to yours and others' thoughts to look at the cal-mag contents of your micronutrients. If you see sensible amounts of cal-mag there, you could go back even more. But I HAVE seen cal-mag deficiencies with as little as 3mL / gal. cal-mag supplementation in RO. 4mL has fixed all my problems with no excess to worry.
As to Si, I never leave home without it. Really seems to help with heat stress among other things. The $64 question is, how much is present in your nutes? I start with 1mL / gallon / 4 liters in veg and move up to 2mL / gallon in bloom. A few weeks before harvest I cut it out entirely. Just as a baseline if it helps, my RO water with 4mL cal-mag and 2mL Si per gallon, comes in at 0.7ec / 350ppm. Without any heat stress (your temps were great at 73 / 67, so I would be comfortable at going to 1mL / gal., or even eliminating Si completely since you are already well into bloom and there's no heat stress to worry with.

Another question about water. You say 0.5ec; do you have a water softener? That strips all the cal-mag but the sodium ion exchange keeps the ec / ppm's high, lulling you into a false sense of security for cal-mag. You don't NEED RO, it's just easier to keep track of exactly what's in your nutrients that way. But, if there is a softener in the equation, bypass it or find a non-softened outlet to draw your water from. Hard water's fine, and the small bit of chlorine in municipal supplies is frankly over-rated for problem causes. Plus you're bubbling anyway to remove that from the problem list.
Light - is it 900W at the wall or is that assuming LED's driven at 100%? Just curious, you already raised it some. Question is more for some other research I'm doing on light height Vs plant stretch.
Absolutely do NOT worry about the beneficial bacteria and the earthy smell. If you have root rot it will STINK. And the slime will be nasty shit... err, more like snot. Strong aeration, control of reservoir / bucket temps, and some good beneficials are the answer to prevention.
If you haven't already, dump and restart with a fresh nute solution just in case there was a cal-mag / Si imbalance causing the pH swing. She still looks healthy & I believe she will be fine.
Mid term, like next grow, if I were you I would go to a simple recirculating DWC setup. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to manage your nutrients when all you need to do is pop the lid on your reservoir and work away. And it's easier to keep aeration in an RDWC as there are no roots to wrap around the airstone or otherwise funk it up. A $15 pump, an $8 - 16 reservoir (size dependent), some 1/2" hydro tubing, a few grommets and connectors and you're all set. And if you keep the reservoir outside your tent, it's much easier to maintain friendly reservoir temps.

That's all I can think of for now, your girl will be fine. Check back later.

Hey Old School, thanks for dropping in and taking a look, I will try to answer all of you points as best I can:
My setup is as follows, 4x2x8 Gorilla Grow tent, 6 inch exhaust and carbon filter, 2 x 27 Litre Exodus Oxypots (i normally fill res with 18 litres which is 1 inch below net pot), 1 x Hiblow HP40 air pump which is 40lpm so 20 lpm per bucket of air which gives a nice spar but I couldve gone bigger with the pump and maybe doubled it to 40lpm per bucket, oh I have 2 4 inch airstones in each bucket by the way which I clean out everytime I do a res change.
Yes I think you are right about my water, I didn't actually have to start using any supplements on my previous grow until about week 7 so I shall drop it down to 0.5ml/l and see how I go.
Sorry dude but not entirely sure what Si is, I am going to take a shot at liquid silicone though as only thing I can think of, I have been using this but Med Grower above did point out that Canna nutrients already have it added into the nutes already so I haven't used it in this res change, I will try to find out exactly how much is in the nutes already.
I don't believe I have a water softener and tap is really my only option at the moment for my water supply which I do leave out for a minimum of 24 hours
Light is a 900W Viparspectra which I think pulls around 400-410 from the wall, if I had just done a little more research I would have gone cobs all the way but this will have to do for the time being
Beneficials - Yes had no problem at all with root issues, never had any slime, bad smell etc but I am concerned about the aroma of my plants, I might just be being paranoid here but my tent this run smells exactly the same as last run even though I have 2 completely different strains from completely different breeders and this run my SOL smelled so good for so long but now it just smells like the last run and more specifically I swear it smells earthy like my res does!
In regards to a recirculating DWC I will have to look into this but not sure in my space I can really fit anything more in and in actual fact I am thinking about getting rid of the 2nd bucket and just running 1 bucket.
I also run Iceline tubing which really helps with my res temps and my buckets are doubled up so a black bucket on the inside keeping the solution in dark light and then white buckets and lids on the outside to keep the inside bucket cool and reflect the light back towards the plant.
I was going to add some PK 13/14 today but would you say it's the correct time for the stage I am at??
Sorry but 1 last question, I bought some terpinator to run this grow but everytime I use it, it raises my EC way to high which it claims to not effect but does that mean it will effect the actual EC but won't cause a lockout as I am very confused how I can get it into my lineup especially when I see some people using it at 10ml/l as that would push my EC sky high!
Here's a pic of where she is at so if you think I should start with the PK now please let me know.
Thank you my bro!

 

[Olde School Player]

OK, all good!!! Wasn't familiar with Oxypots so I took a look when reading your reply; it's a well designed DWC system & the air pump you have is totally adequate. As long as your stones are clean that should "boil" your water. An easy test for airstones is to disconnect the hose from your pump and blow through it. A new airstone will have very little resistance and that will increase as the stone ages.
Yes, 0.5 / L cal-mag will be plenty UNLESS you have softened water. That fooks everything up. Some municipalities soften water before delivering it through the public water supply. If unsure, call the utility co. who's responsible and ask them if they soften the water supply. If you are in a group housing unit (apt./condo) it's also worth a call to your landlord to determine if they have a water softening system in place. If they ask why you want to know just say spots on your dishes. I can't stress enough, softened water in hydro will fook up a wet dream as all Ca and Mg are replaced with sodium. Then you DO need to supplement Ca and Mg, and the sodium ions are still there, driving your ec/ppm's through the roof.
Now, you said "... I didn't actually have to start using any supplements on my previous grow until about week 7....". I'm assuming you meant Cal-Mag? Or other bloom additives? Hmmm, if you have a deficiency with cal-mag then symptoms typically start in late veg to early bloom. Based upon how your plant looks (healthy!) I think we are on the right track with reducing Cal-Mag some, and eliminating Si completely (yes, that's silicon). MedGrower made the point on Si, I agree, & he's spot-on with all of his advice.
You were correct, that 900W light actually pulls 418W at the wall. That's 52W / sq. ft., and with your raising the light to be sure you're not getting any bleaching your plant should be happy. Yeah, COB's all seem to be the future for LED, but I'm with you. I have two 325W systems and I'm going to run them till the wheels fall off. COB might be better, but what we have is good enough.
Regarding that earthy smell - your bucket is in the tent, and you have heavy aeration that's going to blow through your grow rocks and exhaust from the bucket into the tent. I don't believe anything biological is happening at the plant level. So if the tent smells like the reservoir I believe that is just residual air that bubbled through your nutes. I'm in complete agreement with MedGrower that this will not affect your cured product. Keep running your beneficials - at this stage of growth it's largely preventative but never hurts to have them in your root zone all the way to harvest.
PK 13/14; I'm not up on CannaZym, is that phosphorous / potassium Bloom nute base? If so, definitely yes, that girl is in full bloom and she needs both to set and fatten those buds. And even though you are in bloom, she still needs some N in the equation, just less than when in veg. Just keep ppm / EC where previously discussed.
Terpinator - I don't use that product but a quick look indicates it's a bloom booster / potassium supplement. I use Koolbloom which is a phosphorous AND potassium additive. Either way, yes, you can & should use it now. I start mine as soon as bloom shows and run for the duration. It will absolutely raise ec as will any element or micronutrient added to your mix. But that's OK, ec just means you have nutes in your soup. Start with 1/2 the manufacturer's recommended dosage & you should be fine. I use 2.5mL per gallon of KoolBloom and go to 5mL in late bloom; but then I dilute that base by 33 - 50% so in effect I'm using 1.25 to 3.3mL / gallon. Terpinator is different; it's a relatively weak 0-0-4 supplement and the vendor calls for 10-30mL / gallon during bloom (using more as bloom cycle progresses). Start with 5, monitor ec, and I wouldn't be afraid to go to 10-15mL per gallon in late bloom. With 0.5ec water and 1.5ec overall mix, you're only at 500ppm nutrients and that is weak. I've had nute hungry strains run double, even triple that in some extreme cases. As long as your leaves continue to present healthy growth you'll be fine. The real key is to consider how much N-P-K is in the total of all your bases and additives. If ec stays stable as the plant consumes nutes you're in the sweet zone. That additive should have very little if any effect on pH; don't worry if ec goes up a bit, it should. And as long as pH stays in the 5.8 to 6.2 range you won't experience any lockout.

To wrap this up - your plant displays good growth & health characteristics. If anything, the pale green color of the leaves indicates it could stand a bit more Nitrogen in your mix. Your ppm's are low and under control; as long as they stay stable as the plant drinks, I would not be that concerned with the actual value of ec/ppm; just that they remain stable. Watch you pH daily, this is the most important thing you can do for hydro. I suspect the rise in ec and drop in pH are what caused your problem originally, and that has been corrected. Go ahead with bloom supplements and all should be fine.

And don't fart in your grow room. That's probably the smell you are getting

I'll hand around with the rest of the crew & watch for updates.​

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

OK, all good!!! Wasn't familiar with Oxypots so I took a look when reading your reply; it's a well designed DWC system & the air pump you have is totally adequate. As long as your stones are clean that should "boil" your water. An easy test for airstones is to disconnect the hose from your pump and blow through it. A new airstone will have very little resistance and that will increase as the stone ages.
Yes, 0.5 / L cal-mag will be plenty UNLESS you have softened water. That fooks everything up. Some municipalities soften water before delivering it through the public water supply. If unsure, call the utility co. who's responsible and ask them if they soften the water supply. If you are in a group housing unit (apt./condo) it's also worth a call to your landlord to determine if they have a water softening system in place. If they ask why you want to know just say spots on your dishes. I can't stress enough, softened water in hydro will fook up a wet dream as all Ca and Mg are replaced with sodium. Then you DO need to supplement Ca and Mg, and the sodium ions are still there, driving your ec/ppm's through the roof.
Now, you said "... I didn't actually have to start using any supplements on my previous grow until about week 7....". I'm assuming you meant Cal-Mag? Or other bloom additives? Hmmm, if you have a deficiency with cal-mag then symptoms typically start in late veg to early bloom. Based upon how your plant looks (healthy!) I think we are on the right track with reducing Cal-Mag some, and eliminating Si completely (yes, that's silicon). MedGrower made the point on Si, I agree, & he's spot-on with all of his advice.
You were correct, that 900W light actually pulls 418W at the wall. That's 52W / sq. ft., and with your raising the light to be sure you're not getting any bleaching your plant should be happy. Yeah, COB's all seem to be the future for LED, but I'm with you. I have two 325W systems and I'm going to run them till the wheels fall off. COB might be better, but what we have is good enough.
Regarding that earthy smell - your bucket is in the tent, and you have heavy aeration that's going to blow through your grow rocks and exhaust from the bucket into the tent. I don't believe anything biological is happening at the plant level. So if the tent smells like the reservoir I believe that is just residual air that bubbled through your nutes. I'm in complete agreement with MedGrower that this will not affect your cured product. Keep running your beneficials - at this stage of growth it's largely preventative but never hurts to have them in your root zone all the way to harvest.
PK 13/14; I'm not up on CannaZym, is that phosphorous / potassium Bloom nute base? If so, definitely yes, that girl is in full bloom and she needs both to set and fatten those buds. And even though you are in bloom, she still needs some N in the equation, just less than when in veg. Just keep ppm / EC where previously discussed.
Terpinator - I don't use that product but a quick look indicates it's a bloom booster / potassium supplement. I use Koolbloom which is a phosphorous AND potassium additive. Either way, yes, you can & should use it now. I start mine as soon as bloom shows and run for the duration. It will absolutely raise ec as will any element or micronutrient added to your mix. But that's OK, ec just means you have nutes in your soup. Start with 1/2 the manufacturer's recommended dosage & you should be fine. I use 2.5mL per gallon of KoolBloom and go to 5mL in late bloom; but then I dilute that base by 33 - 50% so in effect I'm using 1.25 to 3.3mL / gallon. Terpinator is different; it's a relatively weak 0-0-4 supplement and the vendor calls for 10-30mL / gallon during bloom (using more as bloom cycle progresses). Start with 5, monitor ec, and I wouldn't be afraid to go to 10-15mL per gallon in late bloom. With 0.5ec water and 1.5ec overall mix, you're only at 500ppm nutrients and that is weak. I've had nute hungry strains run double, even triple that in some extreme cases. As long as your leaves continue to present healthy growth you'll be fine. The real key is to consider how much N-P-K is in the total of all your bases and additives. If ec stays stable as the plant consumes nutes you're in the sweet zone. That additive should have very little if any effect on pH; don't worry if ec goes up a bit, it should. And as long as pH stays in the 5.8 to 6.2 range you won't experience any lockout.

To wrap this up - your plant displays good growth & health characteristics. If anything, the pale green color of the leaves indicates it could stand a bit more Nitrogen in your mix. Your ppm's are low and under control; as long as they stay stable as the plant drinks, I would not be that concerned with the actual value of ec/ppm; just that they remain stable. Watch you pH daily, this is the most important thing you can do for hydro. I suspect the rise in ec and drop in pH are what caused your problem originally, and that has been corrected. Go ahead with bloom supplements and all should be fine.

And don't fart in your grow room. That's probably the smell you are getting

I'll hand around with the rest of the crew & watch for updates.​

Thanks man, sorry didn't really explain that my EC figure is with water starting point deducted so 750ppm that was before I added the PK 13/14 so now I'm at 950ppm so will see how I get on with that and adjust as needed as this girl just seems to be a picky eater, then for next 4 weeks I will be using Atami b'cuzz blossom builder

 

[Olde School Player]

I mis-spoke earlier about Terpinator being a bloom booster, it's a potassium supplement and more other magic ingredients whose intention is to improve aroma and flavor of the plant. Nutrient value is rated at 0-0-4 so it's relatively mild, but I shouldn't comment much further as I haven't used the product. ​

And I'm not a CannaZym user so your reference to the PK13/14, is that your bloom base nute? ​

So you're at 950 + 250 water = 1200ppm / 2.4ec after adding the PK13/14, but before the Terpinator & Atami? ​

Your ec is going to continue going up as supplements are added, so you may need to re-calculate your nutrient strength. The best way I've found to do that is to study the N-P-K & micronutrient dosages of your base nutes and supplements, and their recommended full strength dosages. Add those amounts to a gallon of water and adjust your pH to around 5.9. Measure your ec, then calculate a dilution that will bring your ec into a range you're comfortable with. For example, let's say a 100% strength nute mix with all additives and pH balances comes in at 1450ppm, water value included. If you add 1 gallon of 250ppm water to this, your new ppm value should be (1450+ 250) /2) or 850ppm. Practically, that's too low. But if you mix two gallons full strength, then add one gallon water:​

1450 + 1450 + 250 = 3150; / 3 gallons = 1050. You get the picture. The important thing with base nutes and supplements is to maintain the proper ratios, and to adjust strength by simple water dilution. Some plants can stay healthy with a 25% strength solution; some will be healthy & happy at 100%. So decide where you feel safe starting, monitor ppm's, and if they go up as the plant drinks, dilute even further. If ppm's go down, she's hungry and can stand a stronger solution.