Lighting How to calculate BTU's, Watts do not automatically = heat!!!

[pop22]

And all those photons striking your plant do what? First, they shed energy as heat. More more photons striking the leaf surface, the more heat generated, so your formula is incomplete.

And as to a lter post, photosynthesis is about 20% efficient I believe I read, but it would behoove you to find this information for yourself, take the time to learn a bit about the process. And where does that other 80% go to???...........

It seems your basically on the right track, its just your information is incomplete.

Photons, and then weed!

 

[Black Sail]

I didn't find out any percentages, all I said was that a minuscule amount of the energy released from the light is stored in the plant, potential energy. When you burn fossil fuel, you are burning sunlight haha, releasing heat, or infra-red radiation. How far do you think your electric bicycle will run on the energy stored in a plant, compared to how far it would run on the amount of energy, watts used to produce the plant?
I've no idea what the actual percentage is, google Photosynthesis endothermic, there's plenty to read on the subject, someone might have some calculations.

Yes, a hps light with a similar wattage will practically give you the same temperature, doesn't matter where the watts come from, but a smaller plant because the PAR output from the hps is lower, thus less energy will be stored for later release, that's why I say practically

Why do you keep using the misleading term efficiency instead of efficacy ?

I asked in a post how you propose to cool a fixture with the chip you are using running 540 w, I can't see you have replied?
Maybe best not to talk about running this chip over 200 or so watts because it's not possible without active cooling, costing wonga watts, that's what I call all watts not producing Photosynthetic Active Radiation haha
I've seen and held this chip attached to a pin fin heatsink running 500 w, it's bright and get hot, in
case anyone wondered, very much very haha, and you want to switch it off again, quickly

The max wattage of my COB is close to 540W but I never planned on building a fixture like that. I have no idea how someone would cool it, honestly it sounds like a terrible idea even if you could keep it from getting hotter than a whore in church. I'm curious about how she'd do at 320W but I've never run a COB over 50% of it's maximum rated wattage, probably never will. I like my LED's to be efficient and cool.

I use the term efficiency to compare grow lights, in terms of how many umol of photons you'll get per Joule (Watts x Seconds). It's the best way I know of to measure a light's ability to turn electricity into light. If you know your efficiency in umol/J you can calculate how much light you're producing and how much electricity you're using. That's the most important information about a light, I'm definitely not trying to mislead anyone by providing it.

By efficacy I'm assuming you mean the light's ability to grow weed. Since photon density and heat are your light's contribution to the quality & quantity of your harvest, those are the terms and units that I work with. I'm trying to make things as clear and simple as possible.

What would the units be on efficacy, and how would it help people compare one light to the next simply and accurately? My goal is to evaluate and compare grow lights, so that growers can make informed decisions when they buy them. I think the three most important things to consider are: how much light does the fixture produce, how much electricity does it consume, and how much heat does it produce. The efficiency is absolutely crucial to all three of these quantities, so I talk about it a lot!

I'm open to using efficacy to compare light! For it to be useful there needs to be a standard for units and measurement, I can't think of anything that doesn't involve all the variables in each individual garden. Let me know what you had in mind though.

Lol I don't think I'll be turning my plants into bio-fuel and using it to power a generator to recharge an electric bike any time soon. Did you know that most of the glucose a plant makes gets turned into sucrose, transported to the roots, then released into the soil (as exudates) to feed the beneficial bacteria and fungi in the plant's root zone? Cornell posted an entire semester of plant physiology on YouTube, check it out if you get a chance. That's where I learned this and it blew my mind!

My point is that the natural world will throw you a lot of curveballs, the only way to know how things really work is to focus on the important variables one at a time and do experiments. I'm going to do the 250W HPS experiment when I get a chance, one way or the other that should answer the question about heat.

Happy growing brotha:smoking:

 

[Black Sail]

I think I've said everything I needed to say about Isaac Newton's First Law of Thermodynamics in my first post, we'll just have to see what the results of the experiment are. If we want to help people learn about LED's the experiment needs to get done, and we can all go over the results together and decide what they mean!

I'll come up with a procedure and run it by the community, I want to make sure everyone will be satisfied by the results of the experiment. The purpose is to understand what the effect of a light's efficiency will be on the temperature of our gardens, so I'm thinking I should do it in a closet and in a tent. Temperature with The Cannon at 244W and temperature with a 250W HPS. I'm open to any other suggestions too, using The Cannon to set post-it notes on fire sounds like a badass good time!

That reminds me @Waira a 3.25" circle of 1/16" thick acrylic will fit perfectly on a Ledil Angelina XW reflector! The Angelina XW has a little lip on the wide end so you can just super glue the acrlyic onto it. You can get the acrylic cut to spec for like 50 cents each on EBay. I tried this about two years ago but I took them off almost right away. They block about 8% (screw that!) of your light and its really easy to clean COBs with a can of computer duster right before lights on. Maybe you could pop the reflector+lens on for a minute while you're pouring out top-dressing and other dusty shit like that...

If someone can let me borrow their 250W HPS that'd be awesome, otherwise I'll buy one. It's worth it to me if it clears up the disagreement about how the efficiency of a light (in umol/J) changes the temperature of your grow room. This is important! Before we buy a light we need to know how hot or cool that light is going to make our grow space!

Growroom temperatures have a huge impact on your harvest and your electric bill. When it comes to the weed in your jar and the money in your wallet, I'm dead serious about every dollar and every gram. That's why The Cannon gets 2.0umol/J at 240W, has a 220mm heatsink that sits at 120F at full power and its on sale this week for $299. That's $1.25 per watt! www.BlackSailMarket.com

I'm 100% down to change my position on the heat debate based on the real-world results, and if the data says I'm wrong I will always admit it. I see intellectual honesty and scientific discipline as ways to gain a deeper understanding of our world. I think the lack of both in our society is the cause of untold amounts of wastefulness, confusion and needless suffering. These are my highest values, that's what I aspire to and it's what my company is all about.

My apologies again to the entire community for dragging that negativity from IG over here. AFN is better than that, I couldn't agree more! Seriously, thank you for having me here.

Happy growing everyone:smoking:

 

[Black Sail]

So.....

Buy a 250W HPS and do the experiment.

I run HPS and I "think" I know what the results will show.

Or.... since I already have 1000's running, just send me equal total wattage for 1 and I can run it for ya !

Sure thing HashMaster, just send me the money! The experiment is happening soon and The Cannon is on sale for $299 through Black Friday if you want one...

 

[Black Sail]

I actually use two of BigSmo's autocobs in my tent. They're great little lights. The tent doesn't feel like a sauna, and they only add $3-5something to my monthly electric bill. He was very straightforward with everything. I'm actually planning on buying two more (I've only got a 4x4 tent, or I'd act like Dabber and buy a million).
I'm not advertising for him, btw.

Random thought... How would an unbiased product shootout sound? Find someone that's got the equivalent wattage of lights, and have them run the same strain under the two different manufacturer's lights?
I may be stoned and off subject, but hey...

*edit- I mean @Black Sail and @BigSm0 ...do it as a fun product comparison...

Would you want to do watt to watt or dollar to dollar?

 

[Waira]

....well, they way that was phrased, it doesn't tell the story well,... What idiot would use a post-it square on a running light?! - = C'mon man!...... I used the paper post-it's to cover the COB during storage for protection while in the box; The surface of the COB felt tacky to me, enough so to potentially accumulate dust and crap when cool, so that's the why behind that.... When I took it out to fire it up, I had forgotten about the cover which was mashed flush and I just plain didn't see it in time! It took about 3 seconds for the light to laser through the paper- fuck-fuck-fuck!
During use, there is no way anything airborne is going to adhere to the surface of a running COB, way to much convection etc., so no need for the cover in that application,.. I already have the diffusers for the reflectors if I ever needed to soften and focus the light some... having run them now, I see little use for the diffusers except under very specific circumstances,... the reflectors do come in handy now and again, otherwise I like the spread the open COB's offer....

 

[Black Sail]

Yes lets invoke censorship because that's how you promote truth.........

Arrrrr!!!! I'm with you man but the important parts of the post are still up there and I voluntarily edited the rage out. I do regret that part, the internet is too salty already and I understand why AFN is protective over that shit.

When it comes to the math though: 1. dollars per watt 2. efficiency in umol/J 3. operating temperature you can bet I'm ready to go down with the ship:smoking:

Thank you for your input man Keep an eye out too, I'm going to do the experiment.

 

[Black Sail]

And all those photons striking your plant do what? First, they shed energy as heat. More more photons striking the leaf surface, the more heat generated, so your formula is incomplete.

And as to a lter post, photosynthesis is about 20% efficient I believe I read, but it would behoove you to find this information for yourself, take the time to learn a bit about the process. And where does that other 80% go to???...........

It seems your basically on the right track, its just your information is incomplete.

So it depends right? How much of that light goes to photosynthesis depends on the light level, the strain, the amount of CO2 has a huge effect, the temperature, and I know that leaves grown in lower light conditions have fewer chloroplasts (ie where photosynthesis occurs) and that the chloroplasts will rearrange themselves based on light levels. They stack up if its too high and spread out if its too low.

The light that hits the walls and gets absorbed will turn back into heat, but white paint is 93% reflective and a 4'x8' growtent has 200 square feet of walls and roof to radiate that heat out.

Too many variables to keep guessing about. The real question is, at the same wattage will a more efficient fixture have less effect on growroom temperatures. I'm going to do an experiment with The Cannon (244W) and a 250W HPS to find out.

Thanks for weighing in man, please let me know what you think about the experimental procedure when I post it!