Micorrhizae discussion - do we need more than one?

[Eyes on Fire]

Yeah it basically puts the Phosphorous breakdown on the speed path to breakdown.will be dependent between enough or too little foods IMO how effective this will become.But with a heavier soil it'll preform even better.Autos are a bit different with the Microbes Overdrive process.Still needs time to work since flower is short on the Autos.starts typically within week 2-3 so right when or just prior to flower pistils starting Mammoth should be applied.Well sure,think about it.A company tells you one thing.then cool words and nifty pictures and extra awesome graphs will tend to show why one product is better than another.Then the populous gets fucking confused.As is politics,Money,Law and Marketing.Sales,Lobbying and so on.Its convoluted for a reason people.However the game is people are confused by various numbers and most dont wanna spend the time reading the labels.Hell most dunno what they say anywyays.Even if you knew people wanna breakdown a simple nature science into its basic parts.As IF right?! the sum of it whole is not in the parts.its the unison upon one another is it not?! well there ya go.the more the merrier.But one can be used.People think Mycos were made for cannabis.Or so I have seen anyways.NOPE! it was isolated like the others and performed well in studies and went on to sell zillions.LOL for the price of a quality Wettable powder you can make your own.

A fun chart to show how plants are related to the biological ratios.

For instance, if I go into a thriving forest, a natural grove of trees, there will be 800 parts fungus to 500 parts bacteria by biomass present. So when I go to plant a grove of fruit trees, I want to match the forest soil biology for the roots to be comfortable. If I grow grass beneath my trees, the biology will be around 10 parts bacteria and zero parts fungus, this is not compatible! Stress is a natural result.

The remedy offered by CHO IMO#4 is concentrated fungal spores to jumpstart your field fungal ratio, go from zero to 800 in 4 weeks! Your plants will be more comfortable and visibly healthy in a soil environment that matches their native habitat.

 

[Slater]

I'm a little busy for the next few day then I'm all over this thread to get down and dirty with those microbs... nice one @DTOM420 for getting this started

 

[Slater]

Hey every one, back from my jolly's and ready to join in the conversation

I'm not a science guy when it come to the microbes, I let others do that thinking for me then I trust their opinion. I'm a hands on approach type of guy so my findings are just purely observational.

The subject of microbes has been my recent experiments in the grow room. I've been using Mammoth P (MP) for the past year but recently wanted to see if it was really working and also is there a replacement out there on the market that is cheaper (i'm not complaining to much I reap back what MP cost me)... Urb nutrient have been shouting better than MP on there spill so I though i would give it a go... I've also been using Biosys by ecothrive as bi-weekly mini flush and for potting on and dusting my roots with Great white (GW).

Now I know i could be just using the same product over and over, Biosys and GW I think are the same on the microbes list but Biosys comes with kelp and the humic thingy's so better for a drench in my opinion... both are about the same cost... Now Urb looks like its has a lot less microbes that the other 2 but with extra added brown gooey stuff for everything to live in and stay alive... this means Urb has a self life over the powdered varieties.

What I have done so far is remove MP from my line up on 3 grows... dusting my roots with GW after potting on (always done that from the start) started a bi-weekly drench with the Biosys and following the advice from the chief grower at Urb to use it at the rate of 0.6ml to 1.0ml per ltr on a run to waste system (that's no where near what they recommend on the bottle).

My observational findings so far are as follows (these observations are with clones that have been grown out a couple of time. 2 strains, Alien Rift, and my Lemon Chello cut) -

I've noticed an increase in bud sites on both strains, very explosive and a slight game changer on yield ( 2 harvest are in, still to weigh but I know by looking I've hit record harvests for the space's)

I've also noticed that they have sped up by a few days, with one of my cuts (lemon chello) I'm doing the leaf strip at day 11 and not at day 14/15 as in previous grows.

It's also added and extra 2-3 inches on the stretch which caught me out with one space, plants got with-in 3" from the lights. They got well away from me and had a huge burst of stretch in week 3 that i was not expecting.

Calyx size has increased as well on both the strains, considerable more on my 3 different Alien Rift cuts

The big thing I did notice is the missing MP from the line up, yes i got more bud sites and bigger plants, bigger calyx's etc etc etc. so you could say with my new additions that they work better than MP... I don't think they do, they just work in a different way... what was missing from the grows was the MP plumpness, those buds are just not as dense and as big as they where with MP in the line up... so with Urb claiming to be better than MP I would say no your not BUT you make more bud sites / bigger plants to compensate on the missing yield MP brings in... this also showed me that MP does what it say on the tin, it really does work.

for the next 2 grows I've added MP back in with the Urb and the bi-weekly drench with Biosys... after those 2 grows I will remove Urb or Biosys then vice versa to see if they are just the same or working in there own way... I'm also playing with the amount of Urb I'm using, cut back on the second grow with it on the lemon chello from 1ml to 05.ml. We are in the 3rd week so far with no difference from drooping down to 0.5ml a ltr... this could mean Urb is doing bugger all and Biosys is doing all the work, only time will tell on that one... to be truthful there is something to that Urb but it could just be the gooey brown stuff they like to add that feeding the microbes from the Biosys, Urb has very small microbes list than the others.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

Do you have a link for that product? I would like to look at it please.Thanks! That usually what said issue is,or confusion rather.People look at the numbers and Type(s) of Microbe that is supposed to be in there.Not all companies use what is labelled on their own packaging.Some will cut costs through this n that.Also for larger companies it is actually illegal to make less than the previous quarter.Or pay a fine.Most pay fines,others skimp their products and move on making money.Thats often the bottom line.However some work better than others. People trying to contain nature in a bottle for living microbial growth and enhancement of said plant(s) just isnt in the card at this time. We have years at the earliest.LOL even then it'll be OUR make on said thing(s).not Ms Nature herself.

 

[Slater]

Do you have a link for that product? I would like to look at it please.Thanks! That usually what said issue is,or confusion rather.People look at the numbers and Type(s) of Microbe that is supposed to be in there.Not all companies use what is labelled on their own packaging.Some will cut costs through this n that.Also for larger companies it is actually illegal to make less than the previous quarter.Or pay a fine.Most pay fines,others skimp their products and move on making money.Thats often the bottom line.However some work better than others. People trying to contain nature in a bottle for living microbial growth and enhancement of said plant(s) just isnt in the card at this time. We have years at the earliest.LOL even then it'll be OUR make on said thing(s).not Ms Nature herself.

here's the web site - https://urbnatural.com/

and the back of the bottle

 

[Eyes on Fire]

Thank ya sir.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

I dont know what soil your using but essentially all this is is a food element with boosters for activity.If there is low life or activity in the soil alone before you add anything,this would be a decent product assuming all is correct.to add certain type of mycos to boost and help plants.but if you have a soil ready and highly active with a proper inoculate ,these would help feed them essentially but alone will do little but some stuff for your root system.With Mammoth you add way less.especially for Autos.the Photo feeding regime on MP isnt exactly user friendly with costs in mind for Autos.IMO of course.

 

[Slater]

I dont know what soil your using but essentially all this is is a food element with boosters for activity.If there is low life or activity in the soil alone before you add anything,this would be a decent product assuming all is correct.to add certain type of mycos to boost and help plants.but if you have a soil ready and highly active with a proper inoculate ,these would help feed them essentially but alone will do little but some stuff for your root system.With Mammoth you add way less.especially for Autos.the Photo feeding regime on MP isnt exactly user friendly with costs in mind for Autos.IMO of course.

I'm running coco in run to waste system, depending on the plants watering every 24 to 48 hours with each watering spaced out over a small period of time.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

ahhh,ok cool man,thanks!

 

[DTOM420]

A fun chart to show how plants are related to the biological ratios.

For instance, if I go into a thriving forest, a natural grove of trees, there will be 800 parts fungus to 500 parts bacteria by biomass present. So when I go to plant a grove of fruit trees, I want to match the forest soil biology for the roots to be comfortable. If I grow grass beneath my trees, the biology will be around 10 parts bacteria and zero parts fungus, this is not compatible! Stress is a natural result.

The remedy offered by CHO IMO#4 is concentrated fungal spores to jumpstart your field fungal ratio, go from zero to 800 in 4 weeks! Your plants will be more comfortable and visibly healthy in a soil environment that matches their native habitat.

My understanding is that cannabis needs, or prefers, a bacterially dominated soil. At least according to Lowenfels and several other cannabis soil experts I’ve heard interviewed. Of course it needs funguses as well, most importantly the rhizophagus strain of micorrhizal fungi. I think that IMO provides both bacteria and fungi even though it’s the fungi that is so obviously present during the process of making IMO.

I bought “Teaming with Microbes” and I’m in the process of reading it now. It’s fascinating but I do find myself having to go back and re-read (sometimes several times) whole passages to try and fully grasp the processes at work. It’s definitely a book that will take several readings to fully make sense; but I’ve made a commitment to read the whole series of books. I KNOW that it’ll make me a better grower by the time I’m done. I’m hoping it’ll help me to contribute more to the discussion here about what’s going on down there. Lol!