Outdoor Growing and BUGS

[MesaBoogie]

That's a legit pesticide. It's fine to touch but I don't think you want to smoke that

No, I don't think I would want to either. I'm of the impression that it will be ok until it starts to flower ? From what I understand, any residue will only last about a week or until the next rain ? Do you think I should hold off using it ?

 

[JP1]

No, I don't think I would want to either. I'm of the impression that it will be ok until it starts to flower ? From what I understand, any residue will only last about a week or until the next rain ? Do you think I should hold off using it ?

I use it everyday for work to kill mosquitoes. I'd personally never use it near my plants or garden. Most things will be fine until flower but you just never know what the plant holds onto since there's literally zero testing. It is used agriculturally, but that's all stuff that's not smoked

 

[MesaBoogie]

I use it everyday for work to kill mosquitoes. I'd personally never use it near my plants or garden. Most things will be fine until flower but you just never know what the plant holds onto since there's literally zero testing. It is used agriculturally, but that's all stuff that's not smoked

Well that's definitely got me pumping the brakes a lil. I gave ol ChatGTP a call, and here's what it had to say.


"Permethrin is not recommended for use on growing cannabis, especially plants intended for human consumption (smoking, vaping, or edibles). Here's why:

​

1. Toxic Residues When Inhaled:
   
   • Permethrin is approved for use on some food crops, but not for inhaled products. When smoked or vaped, residual permethrin can produce toxic byproducts, potentially harmful to your lungs and nervous system.
2. No Approved Use on Cannabis:
   
   • In Canada and the U.S., permethrin is not approved for use on cannabis by regulatory agencies (e.g., Health Canada, EPA).
   • This means any trace detected in a lab test could fail product safety standards, especially if you're a licensed grower or medical user.
3. Persistence and Systemic Action:
   
   • Permethrin can linger on plant surfaces and isn’t always easily washed off.
   • It’s not a systemic pesticide (i.e., it doesn’t go inside the plant), but it still poses risk if not timed properly before harvest."

 

[JP1]

Well that's definitely got me pumping the brakes a lil. I gave ol ChatGTP a call, and here's what it had to say.


"Permethrin is not recommended for use on growing cannabis, especially plants intended for human consumption (smoking, vaping, or edibles). Here's why:

​

1. Toxic Residues When Inhaled:
   • Permethrin is approved for use on some food crops, but not for inhaled products. When smoked or vaped, residual permethrin can produce toxic byproducts, potentially harmful to your lungs and nervous system.
2. No Approved Use on Cannabis:
   • In Canada and the U.S., permethrin is not approved for use on cannabis by regulatory agencies (e.g., Health Canada, EPA).
   • This means any trace detected in a lab test could fail product safety standards, especially if you're a licensed grower or medical user.
3. Persistence and Systemic Action:
   • Permethrin can linger on plant surfaces and isn’t always easily washed off.
   • It’s not a systemic pesticide (i.e., it doesn’t go inside the plant), but it still poses risk if not timed properly before harvest."

In this instance I'm gonna totally have to agree with the AI. Although that's pretty much what I said. Careful with pesticides, basically nothing is tested for smoking, even the organic stuff is basically just implied "safer" and not tested for that. But that's a young plant and you've got time to get it sorted. IPM is pretty much the most important thing to get anything to finish outside where I am

 

[MesaBoogie]

Although that's pretty much what I said.

I was kinda thinking just that when I read it. You might be outed, JP1 may very well be a bot !!!!

Really appreciate all the help from everyone. Those lil bastards really had me cursing in the garden. Thought the wife was going to confine me to the grow tent for the rest of the season.

 

[BII]

To me, the AI response is weak, non-informative for what we want to know, besides surely being programmed/biased to be super cautious on public safety and cannabis topics. What we need to know (or ask) is:
a) How long does permethrin last on the plant (with it known not to systemically enter or be distributed in plants) before being fully broken down (by air, light, moisture, environmental and plant-borne microbes, etc.)?
b) What levels of residues remain after say ≥3 weeks (plus likely about a week for drying and perhaps weeks more for curing)? Are those levels of any concern? [Consumers, farm workers, etc. surely often inhale many orders magnitude higher dosages when spraying aerosols].

I recall [?] pyrethrins, here including permethrin, reported as fully breaking down within weeks after application to plants, fully safe to use if usage stops at least several weeks before harvest. This includes permethrin not being systemically absorbed into plants and being broken down by light and environmental exposure. Permethrin is used topically, applied to the skin, to treat scabies and head lice; FDA approved. It's readily available even in very high concentrations (such as 38%) to make aerosol sprays. I've used https://www.amazon.com/Hi-Yield-Permethrin-Termite-Ornamental-Control/dp/B000IJX6QI?th=1 in early bloom.

I view pyrethrins as the next product to use, if needed, after using Spinosad, such as Capt, Jack's; and I'd stop any use at ≥3 weeks before harvest.