Margahooja
“OG meph_head”
Good luck Albert.
Mephisto Genetics TLO LED Hubbabubbasmelloscope
- Thread starter Albert Eimstoned
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I was recommended Technaflora MagiCal by someone who knows a thing or two about nutes...
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Hey brother man!!oohhhh gots ya sum mini oil producers i see eh? yer gonna lOVE these genetics man.these and some awesome organic living soil is frigin a match made in super awesomely perfect land er sumthing bro lmfao!! :smoke: anywho brother.if youve been only using one cal mag and you say its not feeding at all and the bottle is new too?hmmmm veryy odd needless to say.hmmmmmm...... well brutha bro man dude if it were me Id suspect your soil possibly heavy silted is all... but without certain things ill have to recommend a bit of a variety in all honesty bro.variety is often key to many issues imho lol.I'd use equilibrium,and the GO cal mag too along with some slightly bubbled molasses..blackstrap if ya got it,or better yet a powdered blackstrap molasses.. did you say the cal mag wasnt working?or feeding it correctly?weird man lol so it this still fresh soil or already used soil or something??hmmmm.i dont have that issue but equilibrium is more for flower but have totally used it with excellent results.ill get back to you tomm. afternoonb man.Im gonna do a lil poking about bro.but right now id use a combo of epsom,mole n a lil Cal mag even though ya think its not doing anything..but LED and ive seen some strains can be a lil tender under them and theyre a lil wee touch sensetive.so Im not 100% atm.but again brother ill get back ta ya very very soon man.
edit:lmfao Im like UBER frigin tired too bro so ill recheck and reply a lil better tomm.plus i wanna look at a few things first before I o forward with this cuz I have the same cal mag in phase with my auto grows too.thanks brutha man!:Sharing One:
edit:lmfao Im like UBER frigin tired too bro so ill recheck and reply a lil better tomm.plus i wanna look at a few things first before I o forward with this cuz I have the same cal mag in phase with my auto grows too.thanks brutha man!:Sharing One:
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Calcium 
hey ya brudda Albert.soo ya have some negating going on or is your cal mag going bad..?well Id recommend a few things actually.firstly imo ya need to read this.heavier or hotter feeds can lead to what some would think of as a saint..lol!!
[h=1]Calcium in Plants and Soil[/h]
[h=2]Mobility and Uptake of Calcium by Plants[/h]Calcium uptake by the plant is passive and does not require energy input. Calcium mobility in the plant takes places mainly in the xylem, together with water. Therefore calcium uptake is directly related to the plant transpiration rate. Conditions of high humidity, cold and a low transpiration rates may result in calcium deficiency. Salinity buildup might also cause calcium deficiency because it decreases the water uptake by the plant. Since calcium mobility in plants is limited, calcium deficiency will appear in younger leaves (die back or burns) and in fruits (blossom end rot, bitter pit), because they have a very low transpiration rate. Therefore, it is necessary to have a constant supply of calcium for continued growth. [h=2]Roles of Calcium in Plants[/h]Calcium is an essential plant nutrient. It has many roles:
Positively charged ions adsorbed to soil particles are termed "exchangeable ions" because they can be exchanged by other ions present in the soil solution. Soil analysis determines the level of exchangeable calcium ions, and not the total calcium in soil, because the exchangeable calcium is the form which is available to the plant. Several factors in the soil analysis can help in assessing the availability of calcium to plants:
Calcium stabilizes soil structure - the calcium that is adsorbed to soil particles helps in stabilizing the soil structure. Adsorbed sodium might cause the soil to crack when dry and swell up when wet. Calcium replaces the adsorbed sodium and prevents damages to soil structure. [h=2]Calcium Deficiency[/h]Calcium deficiency is usually caused due to low calcium availability or due to water stress which results in low transpiration rates. The symptoms of calcium deficiency include curling of young leaves or shoots scorching or spotting on young leaves, poor growth, leaf tip burns, stunted roots, and damage to fruit.
and this should give you a fairly solid answer about your cal mag imo. assuming its not bad or anything.not ph really,but just a hot way to let your calcium not work..Didnt know and thanks brother!!Im guessing ya got me PM? anywho bro I hope this helps you understand ,also brutha ,man ill send you a PM before too long,and to how you can amend the soil with a few extra components for the Cal and mag,along with simple improvements youll be able to do various things lol.
http://www.growersmineral.com/crops/indepth-articles/calcium-in-the-soil.html
hey ya brudda Albert.soo ya have some negating going on or is your cal mag going bad..?well Id recommend a few things actually.firstly imo ya need to read this.heavier or hotter feeds can lead to what some would think of as a saint..lol!!
[h=1]Calcium in Plants and Soil[/h]
[h=2]Mobility and Uptake of Calcium by Plants[/h]Calcium uptake by the plant is passive and does not require energy input. Calcium mobility in the plant takes places mainly in the xylem, together with water. Therefore calcium uptake is directly related to the plant transpiration rate. Conditions of high humidity, cold and a low transpiration rates may result in calcium deficiency. Salinity buildup might also cause calcium deficiency because it decreases the water uptake by the plant. Since calcium mobility in plants is limited, calcium deficiency will appear in younger leaves (die back or burns) and in fruits (blossom end rot, bitter pit), because they have a very low transpiration rate. Therefore, it is necessary to have a constant supply of calcium for continued growth. [h=2]Roles of Calcium in Plants[/h]Calcium is an essential plant nutrient. It has many roles:
- Participates in metabolic processes of other nutrients uptake.
- Promotes proper plant cell elongation.
- Strengthen cell wall structure - calcium is an essential part of plant cell wall. It forms calcium pectate compounds which give stability to cell walls and bind cells together.
- Participates in enzymatic and hormonal processes.
- Helps in protecting the plant against heat stress - calcium improves stomata function and participates in induction of heat shock proteins.
- Helps in protecting the plant against diseases - numerous fungi and bacteria secret enzymes which impair plant cell wall. Stronger Cell walls, induced by calcium, can avoid the invasion.
- Affects fruit quality.
- Has a role in the regulation of the stomata.
[h=2]Factors Affecting the Availability of Calcium to Plants[/h]Calcium forms insoluble compounds with other elements in soil, such as phosphorous. Calcium that is in the form of an insoluble compound is not available to plants. Since calcium is a positively charged ion, it is adsorbed in the soil to the surface of clay and organic particles which are negatively charged.Positively charged ions adsorbed to soil particles are termed "exchangeable ions" because they can be exchanged by other ions present in the soil solution. Soil analysis determines the level of exchangeable calcium ions, and not the total calcium in soil, because the exchangeable calcium is the form which is available to the plant. Several factors in the soil analysis can help in assessing the availability of calcium to plants:
- Soil pH - usually soils with a higher pH level contain more available calcium.
- CEC - this is a soil characteristic that describes the total amount of positively charged exchangeable ions that the soil can hold. A higher CEC indicates a higher capacity of the soil to adsorb and hold calcium, and therefore higher calcium availability.
- Presence of competing ions - calcium competes with other positively charged ions, such as sodium (Na+), potassium (K+), and magnesium (Mg+2). Applying too much of these positively charged ions might decrease calcium uptake by plants. Sodium ions can replace the adsorbed calcium, damage soil structure and decreases calcium availability.
Calcium stabilizes soil structure - the calcium that is adsorbed to soil particles helps in stabilizing the soil structure. Adsorbed sodium might cause the soil to crack when dry and swell up when wet. Calcium replaces the adsorbed sodium and prevents damages to soil structure. [h=2]Calcium Deficiency[/h]Calcium deficiency is usually caused due to low calcium availability or due to water stress which results in low transpiration rates. The symptoms of calcium deficiency include curling of young leaves or shoots scorching or spotting on young leaves, poor growth, leaf tip burns, stunted roots, and damage to fruit.
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and this should give you a fairly solid answer about your cal mag imo. assuming its not bad or anything.not ph really,but just a hot way to let your calcium not work..Didnt know and thanks brother!!Im guessing ya got me PM? anywho bro I hope this helps you understand ,also brutha ,man ill send you a PM before too long,and to how you can amend the soil with a few extra components for the Cal and mag,along with simple improvements youll be able to do various things lol.
http://www.growersmineral.com/crops/indepth-articles/calcium-in-the-soil.html
ThatKracker
Po White Trash
Look at elements from roots organic. Its 100% organic, very easy to use. Excellent source of cal mag
If you don't mind me asking, do you make your own? And if so, can it be done in small quantities? I live in an apartment with limited space (too many hobbies!) and most 'soil building' approaches I've seen aren't really practical for me. I looked at the soil package they had for sale on the TLO website, and admittedly, for the amount you get, the price isn't as bad as I thought at first, but there's no way I could store all of that!
I bought the 5lb "Soil Builder" and mixed it to a "medium" strength. That website states the medium mix as:
My mix was a little different. I did:
5 lbs TLO Master Mix soil builder
4 gallons leftover 2.1 Soil (This was the 40lb bag which was "full strength" and ended up being waaaay too hot for autos).
6 gallons of spagnum peat moss
5 gallons dr earth soil.
6 gallons total of vermicompost & EWC
6 gallons perlite
I mixed everything up in a big 40 gallon plastic tote and waited 45 days (turning over the soil once a week and keeping it moist but not too wet). I think this is absolutely doable in an apartment setting as long as you have room for the 40 gallon tote.
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heck yeah brutha man!! Ole Albert E is on point dude,its totally possibly to do in a small environment(s) bro.thats what this mix initally was for and lemme tell you its a great place for new ppl to understand organics and receive thee best frigin buds around:Hookah: :Sharing One:
you CAN make your own calmag but I havent done it. Here is some info that may help....
[h=1]Cal-Mag users[/h]
chinamonDecember 18, 2009
so i use Botanicare Cal-Mag for my chile pepper plants and normally pay about $21+tax per 1L. i went to a different hydro store yesterday that is out of town but i happened to be in the area and always wanted to check it out. they had this stuff called Grotek Cal-Max. it is 2-0-0 just like cal-mag but it is a lot cheaper. only $15 including tax. i picked up 1L of it to try out but wont be using it for a while until im done my cal-mag. just wanted to let you folks know.
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Comment17BookmarkLike
greystoke(South Africa(11)) These prices are ridiculous for a bit of calcium nitrate. I buy that stuff at a MUCH lower price per kg, while for Magnesium, I use Epsom salt.
Like Bookmark December 18, 2009 at 10:42PM
chinamon hmm i never thought about making my own.
what would the recipe be for making something similar to cal-mag?
Like Bookmark December 19, 2009 at 6:05PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Can't find any info about what exactly is in Cal-Mag, apart from Calcium, Magnesium and Iron. It also sounds very concentrated, as they advise using 1-2 tsp per gallon of nutrient.
Why - exactly - did you use it, and . . . did you find it usefull?
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 11:51AM
hex2006 Greystoke,
Most cal-mag products use Calcium nitrate, Magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. (ie nothing special)
Here`s a typical analysis
Total Nitrogen (N)ÂÂÂÂÂ2.0%
1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.06% Water Soluble Organic Nitrogen
Calcium (Ca)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..3.2%
Magnesium (Mg)ÂÂÂÂÂÂ1.2%
Iron (Fe)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ...0.1%
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 1:40PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Thanks Hex. Indeed, nothing special.
And that must cost $21 per litre! What a rip-off!
Based on that analyses, you would need:
Ca-nitrate (tetra-hydrate): 188 gram/L for 3.2% Ca
Mg-nitrate(hexa-hydrate): 127 gram/L for 1.2% Mg
FeEDTA @ 15.21% Fe: 6.5 gram/L for 0.1% Fe
(but IÂm getting a level of 16% for NO3 ???)
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 10:45PM
hex2006 Hi Greystoke,
No clue why how they got their figures but its cheap
Maybe using MgO and CaO would be a better option?
Like Bookmark December 21, 2009 at 1:24AM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Don't know. Perhaps they're only using a bit of ca/mg-nitrates, mixed with other (cheaper) salts. Perhaps acetates. I think I could formulate something like that.
Anyway, I think chinamon has enough info to start his own concoction.
Good luck, and let us know.
Like Bookmark December 21, 2009 at 7:13AM
hex2006 I came across this info which may (or may not) be useful, i lost the link but there were no accurate liquid or material measurements mentioned so you`ll have to play it by ear,it appears to be 50/50 by volume from the description
2 liter jug plastic and added 2-3 cups of that (Florida Crushed Coral Substrate) it filled the jar to about 4 inches. Put plain old white vinegar (5%) over the media til about 4 inches above the coral.
6 hours after adding white vinegar to the crushed coral,
its still bubbling alittle
PH is coming up slowly now 5.2
mag 164 mg/l or PPM
and calcium is 11808 mg/l
Like Bookmark December 31, 2009 at 10:30AM
lucas_formulas @ hex2006,
You can do the same thing with pulverized magnesium carbonate (magnesite, dolomite as in natural mineral form) but using citric acid instead, to dilute and extract magnesium, plus some Ca, and rare trace elements (Co and Ni "contaminations" in millimols). A strict disclosure agreement doesn't permit me to release further details, though. ;-)
PS: do not forget to cook both 'soups' to be sure to fully eliminating the acids...
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 12:02AM
hex2006 Thanks for that Lucas. Happy New Year!
I have some surplus 99% pure calcium carbonate powder gathering dust in the cupboard from my lizard keeping days.
How much powder should i dissolve in 500ml of white vinegar(5%)and what ppm of calcium would the resulting concentrate provide if diluted at 1ml/L?
Looks like my New Years resolution is to do more experimenting with homebrew nutrients
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 3:55AM
lucas_formulas Happy new year to you too hex2006!
As for calcium I can tell (as it has already been posted here previously): with 5% vinegar you always get 15000 mg/l or ppm, as this is the "max saturation" that this acid concentration can dissolve from natural source in 1 liter. You (only) need 60-70 gram (playing safe) per Liter to get the max (15 gram) of dissolved Ca as acetate in the solution.
Were you confusing calcium carbonate with magnesium cabonate? Anyways, as I said I can't (am not allowed to) tell about how much ppm of Mg will be dissolved out of MgCO3 trough a specific concentration of citric acid. But perhaps someone else can tell or determinate.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 7:13AM
hex2006 Hi Lucas
Sorry for the confusion,itend to go off on a tangent sometimes
I figured it would be more useful to have some calcium acetate in the cupboard than a tub of calcium carbonate.
So it appears 30-35g should be enough for 1/2 litre. I guess i boil it up after dissolves to remove the acid and then make it back up to 1/2 litre using ro water.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 7:45AM
hex2006 I put 40g of powder in a jug and poured a 568ml bottle of white vinegar in. It instantly started to froth but luckily didn`t make it to the top. I gave it a good old stir and left it for 8 hours to do its thing.
The reaction now appears to be over (no bubbles)and the excess powder has settled out to maybe 1/8" thick on the bottom so it looks like i might be needing some more vinegar.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 2:05PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) A quick calc tells me that 24.1 gram of pure Ca-carbonate will dissolve in 568mL of 5% vinegar.
Assuming that your powder contained 36 gram of pure carbonate, then you could add another 280mL of vinegar to dissolve the lot.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 11:16PM
lucas_formulas Question:
1. Does the same thing apply when using 5% citric aid, which is actually cheaper when made from citric acid powder.
Remark: the idea of dissolving both calcium carbonate and magnesium cabonate in either acid is to get some sort of "Cal-Mag" substitute. Both components mentioned earlier as Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate (Epson S.) are fine to supply Mg and Ca in a standard NS, but they come with two downturns 1. they deliver N and S in considerable amounts, not only Ca and Mg. 2. You can't mix the nitrate and sulfate in one concentrate (but need to use it in 2 components). Otherwise, a chemical reaction with irreversible Ca precipitation (out of calcium nitrate) is the inevitable consequence.
So, if you want to produce a real "Cal-Mag substitute" you need to go for dissolving your Mg from magnesium cabonate with citric acid (suppose it works with 5% vinager too).
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 11:46PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) The trouble I've found with dolomite (which is a double salt of Calcium and Magnesium carbonate) is that it is not easy to extract the Magnesium. You can dissolve the calcium part easily in pool acid, which leaves you with raw Magnesium carbonate, but that is reported to dissolve only in 20% Sulfuric acid at ± 90°C after about 3 - 4 hours.
Haven't tried this with citric acid.
Like Bookmark January 2, 2010 at 4:18AM
hex2006 Thanks Greystoke,
I`ll pick up another bottle of vinegar and let you know what happens.
[h=1]Cal-Mag users[/h]
chinamonDecember 18, 2009
so i use Botanicare Cal-Mag for my chile pepper plants and normally pay about $21+tax per 1L. i went to a different hydro store yesterday that is out of town but i happened to be in the area and always wanted to check it out. they had this stuff called Grotek Cal-Max. it is 2-0-0 just like cal-mag but it is a lot cheaper. only $15 including tax. i picked up 1L of it to try out but wont be using it for a while until im done my cal-mag. just wanted to let you folks know.
Comment17BookmarkLike
greystoke(South Africa(11)) These prices are ridiculous for a bit of calcium nitrate. I buy that stuff at a MUCH lower price per kg, while for Magnesium, I use Epsom salt.
Like Bookmark December 18, 2009 at 10:42PM
chinamon hmm i never thought about making my own.
what would the recipe be for making something similar to cal-mag?
Like Bookmark December 19, 2009 at 6:05PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Can't find any info about what exactly is in Cal-Mag, apart from Calcium, Magnesium and Iron. It also sounds very concentrated, as they advise using 1-2 tsp per gallon of nutrient.
Why - exactly - did you use it, and . . . did you find it usefull?
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 11:51AM
hex2006 Greystoke,
Most cal-mag products use Calcium nitrate, Magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. (ie nothing special)
Here`s a typical analysis
Total Nitrogen (N)ÂÂÂÂÂ2.0%
1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.06% Water Soluble Organic Nitrogen
Calcium (Ca)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ..3.2%
Magnesium (Mg)ÂÂÂÂÂÂ1.2%
Iron (Fe)ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ...0.1%
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 1:40PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Thanks Hex. Indeed, nothing special.
And that must cost $21 per litre! What a rip-off!
Based on that analyses, you would need:
Ca-nitrate (tetra-hydrate): 188 gram/L for 3.2% Ca
Mg-nitrate(hexa-hydrate): 127 gram/L for 1.2% Mg
FeEDTA @ 15.21% Fe: 6.5 gram/L for 0.1% Fe
(but IÂm getting a level of 16% for NO3 ???)
Like Bookmark December 20, 2009 at 10:45PM
hex2006 Hi Greystoke,
No clue why how they got their figures but its cheap
Maybe using MgO and CaO would be a better option?
Like Bookmark December 21, 2009 at 1:24AM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) Don't know. Perhaps they're only using a bit of ca/mg-nitrates, mixed with other (cheaper) salts. Perhaps acetates. I think I could formulate something like that.
Anyway, I think chinamon has enough info to start his own concoction.
Good luck, and let us know.
Like Bookmark December 21, 2009 at 7:13AM
hex2006 I came across this info which may (or may not) be useful, i lost the link but there were no accurate liquid or material measurements mentioned so you`ll have to play it by ear,it appears to be 50/50 by volume from the description
2 liter jug plastic and added 2-3 cups of that (Florida Crushed Coral Substrate) it filled the jar to about 4 inches. Put plain old white vinegar (5%) over the media til about 4 inches above the coral.
6 hours after adding white vinegar to the crushed coral,
its still bubbling alittle
PH is coming up slowly now 5.2
mag 164 mg/l or PPM
and calcium is 11808 mg/l
Like Bookmark December 31, 2009 at 10:30AM
lucas_formulas @ hex2006,
You can do the same thing with pulverized magnesium carbonate (magnesite, dolomite as in natural mineral form) but using citric acid instead, to dilute and extract magnesium, plus some Ca, and rare trace elements (Co and Ni "contaminations" in millimols). A strict disclosure agreement doesn't permit me to release further details, though. ;-)
PS: do not forget to cook both 'soups' to be sure to fully eliminating the acids...
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 12:02AM
hex2006 Thanks for that Lucas. Happy New Year!
I have some surplus 99% pure calcium carbonate powder gathering dust in the cupboard from my lizard keeping days.
How much powder should i dissolve in 500ml of white vinegar(5%)and what ppm of calcium would the resulting concentrate provide if diluted at 1ml/L?
Looks like my New Years resolution is to do more experimenting with homebrew nutrients
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 3:55AM
lucas_formulas Happy new year to you too hex2006!
As for calcium I can tell (as it has already been posted here previously): with 5% vinegar you always get 15000 mg/l or ppm, as this is the "max saturation" that this acid concentration can dissolve from natural source in 1 liter. You (only) need 60-70 gram (playing safe) per Liter to get the max (15 gram) of dissolved Ca as acetate in the solution.
Were you confusing calcium carbonate with magnesium cabonate? Anyways, as I said I can't (am not allowed to) tell about how much ppm of Mg will be dissolved out of MgCO3 trough a specific concentration of citric acid. But perhaps someone else can tell or determinate.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 7:13AM
hex2006 Hi Lucas
Sorry for the confusion,itend to go off on a tangent sometimes
I figured it would be more useful to have some calcium acetate in the cupboard than a tub of calcium carbonate.
So it appears 30-35g should be enough for 1/2 litre. I guess i boil it up after dissolves to remove the acid and then make it back up to 1/2 litre using ro water.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 7:45AM
hex2006 I put 40g of powder in a jug and poured a 568ml bottle of white vinegar in. It instantly started to froth but luckily didn`t make it to the top. I gave it a good old stir and left it for 8 hours to do its thing.
The reaction now appears to be over (no bubbles)and the excess powder has settled out to maybe 1/8" thick on the bottom so it looks like i might be needing some more vinegar.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 2:05PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) A quick calc tells me that 24.1 gram of pure Ca-carbonate will dissolve in 568mL of 5% vinegar.
Assuming that your powder contained 36 gram of pure carbonate, then you could add another 280mL of vinegar to dissolve the lot.
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 11:16PM
lucas_formulas Question:
1. Does the same thing apply when using 5% citric aid, which is actually cheaper when made from citric acid powder.
Remark: the idea of dissolving both calcium carbonate and magnesium cabonate in either acid is to get some sort of "Cal-Mag" substitute. Both components mentioned earlier as Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate (Epson S.) are fine to supply Mg and Ca in a standard NS, but they come with two downturns 1. they deliver N and S in considerable amounts, not only Ca and Mg. 2. You can't mix the nitrate and sulfate in one concentrate (but need to use it in 2 components). Otherwise, a chemical reaction with irreversible Ca precipitation (out of calcium nitrate) is the inevitable consequence.
So, if you want to produce a real "Cal-Mag substitute" you need to go for dissolving your Mg from magnesium cabonate with citric acid (suppose it works with 5% vinager too).
Like Bookmark January 1, 2010 at 11:46PM
greystoke(South Africa(11)) The trouble I've found with dolomite (which is a double salt of Calcium and Magnesium carbonate) is that it is not easy to extract the Magnesium. You can dissolve the calcium part easily in pool acid, which leaves you with raw Magnesium carbonate, but that is reported to dissolve only in 20% Sulfuric acid at ± 90°C after about 3 - 4 hours.
Haven't tried this with citric acid.
Like Bookmark January 2, 2010 at 4:18AM
hex2006 Thanks Greystoke,
I`ll pick up another bottle of vinegar and let you know what happens.
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