A4's Only Organic Thread

[Eyes on Fire]

Sweet brother Sounds frigin perfect as I expected man. so how much of what in general are you planning to use to remedy the slight variations in your balance bro? i got a question about that lime thing too bro..I for one tend to add and tell ppl to use it more than I should I know that,dunno bout others.but i tend to do that when if a horrible bag of highly acidly mined and mixed bag of that crappy of similar way off compost of anerobic compost thats freaking out.short of thinning it up some and a lil bit of lime n gypsm or possibly some wood ash..how much of what would you do for a terrible bag of for example to balance it out. thanks for the edumication bro lol hey man while Im asking the guy who totally knows..how much activity can i tamp with useing yucca soluable powder at 2 TBspoons per gallon o water(or whatever amount really i dunno).. I got this one recipe of quick mix thats feeding incredible too.but its too active and crinkling the leaves a little..i know yucca tamps activity but Im not sire as to how much or even how long or anything really to be honest..thanks brother i appreciate that.

 

[A4]

Thanks EoF.

To your question about lime, it is a conundrum I suppose. To me, the short answer would be quit using soil. I know, that isn't going to satisfy those growers that want to be "organic" without being organic. Big difference in my opinion. Bottled fox farms, bottled biobizz, bagged and bottled everything. May as well grow chemical in Promix and save yourself a lot of headache. I don't think there is much difference honestly.

I digress though, I know, we are trying to help people regardless of style of growing. I think the answer is two fold, in the case where the grower has plants in soil and all of a sudden he realizes that the bagged soil was crap then lime isn't going to really help out because by the time it begins to react in the soil the grow is over and the soil is out back in a heap. Lime generally takes 6-12 months to raise pH to an acceptable level. Also, lime isn't water soluble so it isn't going to reach the root level very easily if the plants are in place. So, while adding lime might make the grower feel better it really didn't accomplish the task it was intended to do. If we need it raised quickly I would suggest Potassium Bicarbonate as a solution. It will increase the soil pH quickly, generally less than three days, add potassium to the soil and is OMRI listed as an organic fertilizer. It is a salt, so there is a possibility of doing damage to the soil and it will definitely increase the EC or electrical conductivity of the soil which may cause some tip burn.

The second fold of that answer is, if the grower is using the bagged soil, hasn't planted anything yet and has time to spare. Throw the crap out, lol, just kidding, sort of. I would probably add calcium silicate to the mix to get the soil raised and have the added benefit of getting silicone into the mix as well. Silicate is the same stuff used in rhino skin and all of those products that help increase cell wall formation except most of them are using potassium silicate and in this case we are using the calcium to help lower the pH.

That is just my two cents on the subject. I think lime is bunk with the short growth cycles we have unless we are using a soil over and over again or are cooking soil for extended periods. I also think it has been recommended so much because people look crap up on google and that is the first thing they see, use lime to raise soil pH. Well in a garden, when applied in Fall, it works. Indoors when we are turning soil over every 90 days it doesn't.

One last caveat. I use lime in my soil, not dolomite but calcitic lime. I use lime because I am reusing my soil for extended periods of time, not just one grow. So anyone that looks at my mix and wonders why I am saying what I am saying. That is the reason. Long term, lime is a great product. Short term, it is a waste of money.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

excellent brother..got another question man..with the increasing of the cell wall,would a brix treatment(more than one ofcourse lol) with a small touch of wood ash accomplish a similar task?

yeah man I often say lime myslef more than is necessary i belive to but im soo used to reusing my soil and always turning a soil it seems ya know lmfao!! what are you thoughts about prilled lime man?

and are their any thoughts of the Yucca question? i was trying to find out about the tamping or dampening effect of yucca extract..how much is either too much and how much effect can i expect?Thanks bro!!:Sharing One:

 

[A4]

I don't know about the wood ash as a foliar, really I haven't looked into wood ash much as it isn't something I can readily get as an amendment. I do know that when doing foliars you want it acidic. My understanding is, you need the low pH to help the absorption and "cut" for lack of a better work, through any waxy substance that may be on the leaf.

As for the prilled lime, I had to look it up just now. We don't have anything called "prilled" lime around here. From what I see, Calcium (Ca)19.95%, Magnesium (Mg)10.35%, Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)49.82%, Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3)42.60%. Here is the only reason I don't like lime in general and it is me being anal. I like to know where my mix is at as far as % of nutrients and from my readings everyone says you want between a 5:1 - 7:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium in soil. Lime, to me, just throws the entire balance out of whack because it in itself isn't balanced properly. It is almost a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio so the longer you use it the more magnesium keeps building up in the soil and eventually the entire mix is jacked up.

As for the yucca, man you have me there. There are a lot of people that use it on another forum I hang out on. Most use it as a "spreader" or surfactant but my understanding is it is also a saponin. Honestly, my reading on the subject is limited. But I do know it as well as aloe is being used for that reason. I am about to leave work right now but let me glance over at the other forum and see what people are having the most luck with and what rates they are using them at.

You know, I have been so dedicated to getting the proper ratio of amendments to turn out nutrients properly in the soil I haven't spent as much time as I should on adding the "extras" such as teas, foliars and such. I kind of look at is as building my foundation. Once the foundation is perfect than I will begin researching the other stuff and adding it in. I have watched your grows and always thought, sometime in the future I am going to get to the point I am doing drenches and teas. My knowledge is lacking in that area although I have began incorporating a very simple foliar into my grows with a lot of success.

 

[medi]

Hey A4, thanks for all the great info first of all. I generally use Oyster shell powder rather than lime when I'm trying to buffer, my understanding is that it's nearly pure calcium carbonate, my question is whether this is more effective than lime in regards to breakdown time and subsequent buffer.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

i deally I like to round my calcium.I got oyster shells but cant get em crushed..lmfao!soooo, I use lime and crab n egg and varying components combing to add small bits too. yeah ive been lookinjg for the answer to that Yucca question frigin fooorrreevvveerrr lmfao!! I know it mellow or even stalls sctivity in the soil but I just am curios as to how much like a % or something..

yeah I hear ya bro on being anal.I just cant afford to be lol kinda suck to be honest cuz id love to play around too. I just strted with a pretty decent mix n got lucky and it was easy to learn in broad strokes,especially as i alwaysa say once ya watch it and do small things to see what is does you understand it more.

oh the wood ash I ment in a soil not a foliar man lol!sorry i shoulda been more clear lol

Shit brother you n I know I know shit all bout fuck all my friend.I look to you for clarification man.:Sharing One:

I love your dedication to your soil mix bro.I wished i could afford tests n things myself but thats quite aways for me atm. I just keep slowly rolling the foods in that are used to some level and await it to do its thing.ill re inoculate after this next rotation though.

Thanks a ton brother for taking the time to write that all up for me man.Have a smoke on me my friend :Hookah:

 

[A4]

Hey A4, thanks for all the great info first of all. I generally use Oyster shell powder rather than lime when I'm trying to buffer, my understanding is that it's nearly pure calcium carbonate, my question is whether this is more effective than lime in regards to breakdown time and subsequent buffer.

Yeah I use them too medi, one to two years is my understanding on the release. I am not too sure on their buffering capability but I like them in the soil because they are supposed to be real good food for microbes. I am sure that depends on the particle size as well. I don't know about yours but mine comes in varying sizes, some chunks, some small pieces and some powder. For my buffer mix I use a three part. One part Ag lime, one part gypsum and two parts oyster shell and that is it, even with that small amount and no dolomite I am still at 7.4 and my mix is hot. I believe that is why I can get through an entire grow with only water though. I don't think it is all that important, the buffering that is, as I have noticed that when I start putting plants in I see a change in the pH and it settles out around 6.6. My guess is when the microbes begin working in symbiosis with the plant they level it out to where it is best for them.

i deally I like to round my calcium.I got oyster shells but cant get em crushed..lmfao!soooo, I use lime and crab n egg and varying components combing to add small bits too. yeah ive been lookinjg for the answer to that Yucca question frigin fooorrreevvveerrr lmfao!! I know it mellow or even stalls sctivity in the soil but I just am curios as to how much like a % or something..

yeah I hear ya bro on being anal.I just cant afford to be lol kinda suck to be honest cuz id love to play around too. I just strted with a pretty decent mix n got lucky and it was easy to learn in broad strokes,especially as i alwaysa say once ya watch it and do small things to see what is does you understand it more.

oh the wood ash I ment in a soil not a foliar man lol!sorry i shoulda been more clear lol

Shit brother you n I know I know shit all bout fuck all my friend.I look to you for clarification man.:Sharing One:

I love your dedication to your soil mix bro.I wished i could afford tests n things myself but thats quite aways for me atm. I just keep slowly rolling the foods in that are used to some level and await it to do its thing.ill re inoculate after this next rotation though.

Thanks a ton brother for taking the time to write that all up for me man.Have a smoke on me my friend :Hookah:

You do wonderful work and have been the basis for most all the organic growers on this site. Don't sell yourself short! Your approach is more natural and on a conscience plane with the plants. Not many people have that ability, to read the plants. My work is an attempt to take the guesswork out of it so more people will feel confident about making the switch. That and I am wanting to push the boundaries of what has been traditionally recognized as an overall lack of yield in organics. I believe we can compete with hydro given a scientific approach and I aim to prove that on here with time. I am pretty close to competing with my chem grows right now, gram for gram. The two limiting factors in true organics is oxygen at the root level and an inability to keep a consistent EC in the soil. That is THE only reason hydro is capable of producing greater yields. If you follow gbd's latest thread with the drip system, he is on to something! He got my brain moving with the drip system and keeping a highly oxygenated water slowly feeding the plants that is my next task. Too much water? Nonsense, if the water is highly oxygenated like in a DWC system then there is no worry of overwatering because the root system has the oxygen it needs. The only concern then is setting the water feed properly so it doesn't have too much drain and wash the nutrients out of the soil and keeping a check on the EC levels.

I have let the cat out of the bag but the more people thinking about it, the more ideas can be formulated and improved upon.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

Well Thank ya muchly brother Yeah ive thinking on the whole coco and root stimuli with a more recirculated water source with natural treatments n so on.not so much a drip system since Im a water conservation kinda guy in heart anyways lol. if i had a circulatory system Id totally be doing that actually lmfao!its a simple principle imho anyways.I hate setting them damned things up outdoors too.suuuucked hard lol!

and as far as yeild goes indoors yeah I can dig it but outdoors I have friends who have done better yields with their photos. ive always believed also in a wick system since thats how we'd feed our cactus sometimes long ago..looong ago when we walked sideways and upside down both ways to school n up hill on the way to school WTF?!LMFAO!:smoke: :thumbs:

 

[growbeast]

The information you guys possess is brilliant, simply amazing. I can't wait to have every thing to go complete organic. I need all y'all in my corner. Still atleast one grow away tho.

Thanks for all the info a4.... and Eof, yea that's my home skillet, my main Apple scrapple lol

 

[A4]

Just a few transplants I had put into the new soil mix. It is a 50% blend of new mix and promix.

C+

Romberry

C+

Super Silver Sour Diesel Haze

That haze got a little burn on her but the rest have fared well. I killed my Fire99 post in the photo section and will import everything over here. Those will be the first plants I run in the new mixture. They should be ready to transplant in a few weeks.