New Grower Growing auto with photosensitive?

[Son of Hobbes]

I can sense a big debate coming about 18/6 vs 20/4 vs 24/0. I've always used 20/4 and it's been fine for my plants. I look at it this way, since autoflowers don't need a night cycle to switch to flowering, you don't want to be wasting potential photosynthesis in a prolonged night period when that "night" period can be used to increase photosynthesis. Some say plants will accelerate root development during their night period, but if you're running a 20/4 schedule, the plants still technically have a small rest period (4 hours "night"). 18/6 is just wasting a potential few more hours which could help the plant in the long run.

Cheers.

Please clarify when stating opinion as fact, Chad. There are a multitude of grows on here on 18/6 lights that have EPIC harvests; could you also please post some scientific data with links to back up your declaration?

This was also literally just discussed in another thread, here's some food for thought and some quick links:

The light schedule has been an on going debate for quite awhile; there are several threads and polls on AFN about it already. Here's a quick link to probably the most popular one:

Thread: What's the best lighting cycle for autos - 24/0, 20/4 or 18/6

At the time of this post; there are 331 voters on that poll. Out of those voters on the poll, over 50% of them voted that they thought 20/4 worked best, a little over 33% voted on 18/6, about 13% for 24/0 and the rest for other lighting schedules.

On the poll listed here; there are 97 voters. Out of those voters, about 64% chose 20/4 lighting over the 18/6 (at 36%.)

So statistically, you can see where the majority lays. Whether those are the best light schedules or not could probably be deemed subjective though; as some searching through grow journals on here will show you some amazing grows on all sorts of light schedules.

Depending on the breeder, the strain, or even particular pheno, sometimes certain autos will also display more light schedule dependent traits (not very common, but there have been cases reported on AFN.)

I'm currently running 24/0 light schedule with my plants and I have three particular autos that have yet to flower (day 60 from germ.) The rest of the plants in the grow space are loving it. I ran my last big auto grow on 18/6 light schedule. Comparing the two based on my own personal results; I'd honestly go back to 18/6 on my next grow. Or maybe even try 20/4.

Nothing wrong with experimenting a little; but based on the data I think there's definitely a clear push towards certain light schedules, and that a grower should learn how the particular strains they are growing react to the schedule they are using.

Working with "absolutes" and "always" and "100% of the time's" can be a dangerous game when there are unknown variables.

Also not sure if you saw them; there are dedication sections for lighting:

Lighting

As well as a dedicated section for LED's:

LED Growing Section

Hope that helps bro! :karma Cloud:

az2000, the autos will flower on 12/12 with the photos but if you do some searching on here you'll find most people have reported the yields are diminished and the buds tend to be lighter / more airy. I personally have flowered an auto (just one) on 12/12 with some photos and it pretty much held to be true. Not saying you can't do it, not saying you couldn't experiment, but know going into it what the atypical results are. My recommendation would be to not flower it on 12/12 if you have an option to not.

Hope that helps a bit bro! :karma Cloud:

 

[WEEDOSHI]

Please clarify when stating opinion as fact, Chad. There are a multitude of grows on here on 18/6 lights that have EPIC harvests; could you also please post some scientific data with links to back up your declaration?

This was also literally just discussed in another thread, here's some food for thought and some quick links:



az2000, the autos will flower on 12/12 with the photos but if you do some searching on here you'll find most people have reported the yields are diminished and the buds tend to be lighter / more airy. I personally have flowered an auto (just one) on 12/12 with some photos and it pretty much held to be true. Not saying you can't do it, not saying you couldn't experiment, but know going into it what the atypical results are. My recommendation would be to not flower it on 12/12 if you have an option to not.

Hope that helps a bit bro! :karma Cloud:

Hi there,

Nothing bad about a healthy debate. Not going too much into this subject as i stated "I can sense a debate" because there always has to be that one person who engages it. Also would prefer not to continue this any further or engage into a debate regarding it as there is already a thread about it. Everything stated in my previous post is fact. Plants use photosynthesis to convert sunlight & water into a form of plant energy through sugars, autoflowers do not run on a photoperodic mechanism and therefore extra un-needed downtime is not required, can you prove that it is?

Please clarify when stating opinion as fact, Chad.

I can sense a big debate coming about 18/6 vs 20/4 vs 24/0. I've always used 20/4 and it's been fine for my plants. I look at it this way, since autoflowers don't need a night cycle to switch to flowering, you don't want to be wasting potential photosynthesis in a prolonged night period when that "night" period can be used to increase photosynthesis. Some say plants will accelerate root development during their night period, but if you're running a 20/4 schedule, the plants still technically have a small rest period (4 hours "night"). 18/6 is just wasting a potential few more hours which could help the plant in the long run.

Cheers.

Please clarify for me where I stated something that was not an opinion and was stated as a wrong fact? :thumbs:

 

[Epic Genetics]

ive run a few thousand autos on 12/12 over the years , it wasnt because i wanted to , it was because sometimes i go nuts and run out of space in one room or another

my findings (might be different from others) are absolutely zero loss in potency , the buds were actually denser , but overall yield suffers 20-25 %

when your growing autos just to supplement yourself with some extra or earlier finished smoke id say dont worry and go 12/12 , but if you are after yield you wanna hit em with as much light as possible for as many hours as possible

nice healthy debate isnt bad so long as we all keep the vibe

peace

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Hi there,

Nothing bad about a healthy debate. Not going too much into this subject as i stated "I can sense a debate" because there always has to be that one person who engages it. Also would prefer not to continue this any further or engage into a debate regarding it as there is already a thread about it. Everything stated in my previous post is fact. Plants use photosynthesis to convert sunlight & water into a form of plant energy through sugars, autoflowers do not run on a photoperodic mechanism and therefore extra un-needed downtime is not required, can you prove that it is?

Please clarify for me where I stated something that was not an opinion and was stated as a wrong fact? :thumbs:

Plants use photosynthesis to convert sunlight & water into a form of plant energy through sugars, autoflowers do not run on a photoperodic mechanism and therefore extra un-needed downtime is not required, can you prove that it is?

Whether or not there is a explicit benefit to a dark cycle in autos is not my argument. Please reread my post and my quoted post.

Depending on the breeder, the strain, or even particular pheno, sometimes certain autos will also display more light schedule dependent traits (not very common, but there have been cases reported on AFN.)

Let me give you an example.

Chad, take a look at this thread started by the AFN member, nben.

Thread: Avoid Royal Queen Auto Jack Herer

The member had an autoflower strain that was not fully autoflowering on his light schedule of 20/4 (see page 2.) It was advised by jm (perhaps you've heard of him?) to cut the light cycle back to 12/12. The member did that and reported the plant responded to the change and started flowering out.

Kudos to my AFN friends!! Your prophecy has come to pass.

I intentionally left the plant to do it's thing without me checking on it for a few days so I would notice a difference if the 12/12 was indeed working.

Checked today and there are indeed white hairs sprouting up over much of the plant. The main cola does not seem to be doing much but I am starting to think that the heat stress may have damaged it more than what I thought.

The rest of the plant is throwing white hairs over much of it. Thank you so much for your helpful suggestions!

Here's a bit of an explanation on this:

great stuff as always vap!!! :gthumb:

yeah... I'd cut it to 14/10 or 12/12 ... vap is some breeders havent fully tested out their strains for 100% auto... it takes several generations to get a fully auto plant from a cross...

yopu prob just have a light sensitive pheno...

next time you get one going way over... you know to flip it for real...

My point, Chad, was when making statements like this,

Great you have another tent! You can put it in a 24/0 or 20/4 light schedule to maximize yield. Some (but not all) even say 18/6 is not enough light for an auto, I've that to be true. AF's from my expirence need at least 20+ hours of light per day to reach their maximum potential.

Autoflowers will flower even in a 24/0 schedule. Light is not an issue with AF's but they need lots of it.

18/6 is just wasting a potential few more hours which could help the plant in the long run.

I think it would be good to clarify you're stating opinions, because based on the information I've just shown you (which is the basis for me responding to your post in the first place,) there are instances where 19+ hours of light subjectively isn't going to give better or worse results than 18/6, on top of instances where you have a light sensitive pheno, which was just proven in that link.

I also appear to have light sensitive phenos with three particular autos in my current grow (out of 22 total plants) on a 24/0 light schedule. 61 days from germ. You can check it out here if you please.

Oh and Chad?

Nothing bad about a healthy debate. Not going too much into this subject as i stated "I can sense a debate" because there always has to be that one person who engages it. Also would prefer not to continue this any further or engage into a debate regarding it as there is already a thread about it.

This isn't a throw down. There is no "meet me at the flag pole at 3:20 when the school bell rings and let's have it out." If you have to go to the lengths of actually putting a disclaimer out there that you've just made a statement that you fully expect to be called out on, don't be surprised if you get called out on it. Understood?

I'm posting this information because there are a lot of new growers out there reading this and potential growers in the future reading this. If I were new to the game, I'd sure want to know that the information being presented to me was being explained in the fullest, instead of believing generalized blanket statements.

As someone who grows, someone who takes the time to write guides (like your tobacco juice one,) and someone who is into breeding, surely you can at least appreciate the pursuit of transparent and omniscient knowledge, right?

We're all in this together bro!

ive run a few thousand autos on 12/12 over the years , it wasnt because i wanted to , it was because sometimes i go nuts and run out of space in one room or another

my findings (might be different from others) are absolutely zero loss in potency , the buds were actually denser , but overall yield suffers 20-25 %

when your growing autos just to supplement yourself with some extra or earlier finished smoke id say dont worry and go 12/12 , but if you are after yield you wanna hit em with as much light as possible for as many hours as possible

nice healthy debate isnt bad so long as we all keep the vibe

peace

Thanks for posting this bob! Mine turned out pretty wispy. But, I think your experience validates what I said:

...and that a grower should learn how the particular strains they are growing react to the schedule they are using.

Working with "absolutes" and "always" and "100% of the time's" can be a dangerous game when there are unknown variables.

Wouldn't you say there are many variables that could vary between my setup and yours? Growing medium, ambient temperatures, strain, phenotype, pot size, type of light, growing space, environmental variables (such as available CO2 and oxygen levels,) etc etc etc. Throw in experience levels and it's a melting pot of variable outcomes. :smokebuds:

Anyways that's my "My 2 cents" :karma Cloud:

 

[WEEDOSHI]

Whether or not there is a explicit benefit to a dark cycle in autos is not my argument. Please reread my post and my quoted post.



Let me give you an example.

Chad, take a look at this thread started by the AFN member, nben.

Thread: Avoid Royal Queen Auto Jack Herer

The member had an autoflower strain that was not fully autoflowering on his light schedule of 20/4 (see page 2.) It was advised by jm (perhaps you've heard of him?) to cut the light cycle back to 12/12. The member did that and reported the plant responded to the change and started flowering out.



Here's a bit of an explanation on this:



My point, Chad, was when making statements like this,





I think it would be good to clarify you're stating opinions, because based on the information I've just shown you (which is the basis for me responding to your post in the first place,) there are instances where 19+ hours of light subjectively isn't going to give better or worse results than 18/6, on top of instances where you have a light sensitive pheno, which was just proven in that link.

I also appear to have light sensitive phenos with three particular autos in my current grow (out of 22 total plants) on a 24/0 light schedule. 61 days from germ. You can check it out here if you please.

Oh and Chad?



This isn't a throw down. There is no "meet me at the flag pole at 3:20 when the school bell rings and let's have it out." If you have to go to the lengths of actually putting a disclaimer out there that you've just made a statement that you fully expect to be called out on, don't be surprised if you get called out on it. Understood?

I'm posting this information because there are a lot of new growers out there reading this and potential growers in the future reading this. If I were new to the game, I'd sure want to know that the information being presented to me was being explained in the fullest, instead of believing generalized blanket statements.

As someone who grows, someone who takes the time to write guides (like your tobacco juice one,) and someone who is into breeding, surely you can at least appreciate the pursuit of transparent and omniscient knowledge, right?

We're all in this together bro!



Thanks for posting this bob! Mine turned out pretty wispy. But, I think your experience validates what I said:



Wouldn't you say there are many variables that could vary between my setup and yours? Growing medium, ambient temperatures, strain, phenotype, pot size, type of light, growing space, environmental variables (such as available CO2 and oxygen levels,) etc etc etc. Throw in experience levels and it's a melting pot of variable outcomes. :smokebuds:

Anyways that's my "My 2 cents" :karma Cloud:

Hey mate,

Sending some for that post, very informative I must say. I did say there might be a decrease in potency as I've never actually run a 12/12 but it appears that this is completely wrong and that potency remains the same with more denser buds.

I think b0b & you just ended the debate very nicely with closing statements. :thumbs:

 

[az2000]

Related to piggybacking AF onto photosensitive grow: how important is light color?

For example, let's say someone has a veg and flower tent for photosensitive. They leave their AF in the veg tent to obtain longer 18/6 lighting during the AF's flower. But, the AF will receive 25% warm (75% cool) veg lighting while flowering (not 75% warm which exists in the flower tent).

Is that an important factor? I know my percentages of warm/cool aren't cast in concrete. But, I believe it's generally accepted that flowering photosensitives should receive warmer light. I'm curious if that holds true for AFs and how significant it would be if the AF didn't get it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DABaracuss]

Normally I veg in 20/4 and when vert growth stops go to 18/6..I would say its a safer way to auto..12/12 is not ideal as autos grow to fast and have too short of a life cycle to miss that much light hours..if my plant needs 12/12 then its a PHOTO the breeder didnt check the seeds then they are not autos..I would contact the breeder ..Autos are on the cutting edge and traits are being bred in fast, you just need to go with proven strains and not hype seeds! check the grows and AFN reports to get real strain info..I havent seen one seed bank say anything NEG about a seed they sell..can they all be good? LOL We call the ones that dont auto ROUGES and I dont know a breeder that would put them out untested until they all autoed I know cuz I test ..I had one and I loved it ..got huge before I figured out What was going on LOL ATM I have autos blooming and veging and photos vegging in one room on 18/6..oh and photos in bloom that I move out every 12 hrs lol but if there is little or no diffrence in yield or potency id say go with the shorter cycle get more out of your equipment!Why run power longer then needed.:tiphat:Test it out see what you like and how your strains react.

 

[swampman]

I like to.Look.at Ganja In Microscope In.Da dark.!!!!!.

The Ambers Are Brighter !

 

[swampman]

No for Real....
I have Tried this Lately.for.Temp and humidity reasons....
During Veg 24/0. ...Been Helping tremendously ...

Alot of Veg ...then.Drop.to.18/6 as a.photo shallIn Last 3 Weeks ...they also.then.Be Introduced to.The Goddess Of HPS ...
bling...

And 18/6 is makes a great Imop.
Of Autos ..


Im still Learninf. .tho ..But i Like Ma 18/6 Flowers taste

 

[WEEDOSHI]

Normally I veg in 20/4 and when vert growth stops go to 18/6..I would say its a safer way to auto..12/12 is not ideal as autos grow to fast and have too short of a life cycle to miss that much light hours..if my plant needs 12/12 then its a PHOTO the breeder didnt check the seeds then they are not autos..I would contact the breeder ..Autos are on the cutting edge and traits are being bred in fast, you just need to go with proven strains and not hype seeds! check the grows and AFN reports to get real strain info..I havent seen one seed bank say anything NEG about a seed they sell..can they all be good? LOL We call the ones that dont auto ROUGES and I dont know a breeder that would put them out untested until they all autoed I know cuz I test ..I had one and I loved it ..got huge before I figured out What was going on LOL ATM I have autos blooming and veging and photos vegging in one room on 18/6..oh and photos in bloom that I move out every 12 hrs lol but if there is little or no diffrence in yield or potency id say go with the shorter cycle get more out of your equipment!Why run power longer then needed.:tiphat:Test it out see what you like and how your strains react.

Interesting theory.

Plants might actually have a limitation of how much they can grow per day based on grow medium ,Co2 availability. temperatures, nutrients etc.. If the plants can only grow a X amount per day, giving them more light might not assist in them actually grow better or faster. Just a theory guys! don't quote me on this!!