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440w total and 187 par watts is the watts making pure light. The rest is heat(and fan and driver loss). 42.5% efficiency overall. Equal to ~136 lumens/watt. 60,000 lumens total, 1132 ppfd. That's top end light for that space. Beyond the 900-1000ppfd you start seeing pretty bad deminishing returns. More light = more bud, but at this point more space would net more overall yield at the same light. Half that total(Vero only) probably puts you at 600ppfd, low end for flowering but very efficient. Think 1.5g/w @ 600ppfd, 1g/w @ 1100ppfd. 320g(240w) vs 440g(440w) in this scenerio. Sacrifice efficiency by just adding light, but if space is limited and more bud is needed, more light is the only way to go.

Unless heat is a concern, I'd keep the HPS in the 4'x4'. If you want more bud out of it in that space, run it vert in the center. 600w HPS is 150lm/w, 90,000lumens. That's measured 360°, hence why 90°-120° leds can put more light on the canopy at lower efficiencies. A good bit, 20-40%, is lost in reflection. Vert takes advantage of the whole light if you can manage heat(cooltube, and I've seen some run bare bulb with a box fan on the ground).

Id scrap the mars or DIY convert them to Cree/vero, they won't be an improvement over HPS unless heat is a concern. You need ~600w of mars to equal 600w of hps, and again the spread is poor(Mars 1200 loses to 600w hps at anything beyond a 2.5'x2.5' space, based on their own par charts.)
 
Yo @Atulip
This is the kind of information I really needed to hear.
Am I hearing that you would sell the mars and use the proceeds to invest in the dlp cob tech?
I was thinking that myself.
 
Atulip your Shiney new badge looks nice my man.

Your turning into the LED guru I'm glad to have you around that's for sure
 
440w total and 187 par watts is the watts making pure light. The rest is heat(and fan and driver loss). 42.5% efficiency overall. Equal to ~136 lumens/watt. 60,000 lumens total, 1132 ppfd. That's top end light for that space. Beyond the 900-1000ppfd you start seeing pretty bad deminishing returns. More light = more bud, but at this point more space would net more overall yield at the same light. Half that total(Vero only) probably puts you at 600ppfd, low end for flowering but very efficient. Think 1.5g/w @ 600ppfd, 1g/w @ 1100ppfd. 320g(240w) vs 440g(440w) in this scenerio. Sacrifice efficiency by just adding light, but if space is limited and more bud is needed, more light is the only way to go.

Unless heat is a concern, I'd keep the HPS in the 4'x4'. If you want more bud out of it in that space, run it vert in the center. 600w HPS is 150lm/w, 90,000lumens. That's measured 360°, hence why 90°-120° leds can put more light on the canopy at lower efficiencies. A good bit, 20-40%, is lost in reflection. Vert takes advantage of the whole light if you can manage heat(cooltube, and I've seen some run bare bulb with a box fan on the ground).

Id scrap the mars or DIY convert them to Cree/vero, they won't be an improvement over HPS unless heat is a concern. You need ~600w of mars to equal 600w of hps, and again the spread is poor(Mars 1200 loses to 600w hps at anything beyond a 2.5'x2.5' space, based on their own par charts.)


Hey @Atulip ....I put those puppies (1200 and 700) on the flea bae. I bet they should sell quick fast. That should pay for a Cree cxb200 4000k unit to go alongside the vero29.
Thanks for giving me the idea! :cheers:
 
Yo @Atulip
This is the kind of information I really needed to hear.
Am I hearing that you would sell the mars and use the proceeds to invest in the dlp cob tech?
I was thinking that myself.

Definitely. Pop those suckers on eBay and get something nice :D

Pacific light concepts, tasty led, optic lighting, timber light. All quality lights using Cree/Vero cobs.

@A-Train started when I saw those aweful mars 1200 par charts you posted lol. All that wasted par in the center and poor spread. Got me researching, because theres so many crap leds out there. Most aren't an improvement over HPS, watt for watt, you just get less heat on your canopy. Its not until you get to the higher end stuff that you actually see more efficiency.

Gotta earn one of those LED techie badges now lol.
 
Now I'm wondering if I should spring for a HS-1?
 
You do not want to purchase the HS1 or budmaster, price is too high for what you get. Grownorthern hs1 only uses 75w, with lumiled rebel chips, 150-180 lm/w best case scenerio. And they're what 300+pounds? You'd need 4 for a 4x4, and that'd be equal to 550-600w HPS(best case scenerio, I don't know what efficiencies they're running these chips at)

Tastyled is my favorite. Mainly for customizability. All the lights are bar shaped, 2 of these for low end flowering(high efficiency), 3 for top end flowering(more bud) in a 4x4.

http://www.tastyled.com/product-p/t3-1750.htm

One of these would hit that sweet spot in a 2x4.

http://www.tastyled.com/product-p/t4-1750.htm
 
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