Grow Mediums How much does your tray empty before the Aquavalve let's them fill up again?

[Olderfart]

Hello fellow Autopot users...

I come with the following question: How much does your Autopot tray empty before the Aquavalve opens up again?

This last run i have been paying close attention to my trays and until last week they would only start filling up again when they were almost empty... If the tray fills up with 2 cm of water, I'd have said they would refill when water got to about 0.5 cm or lower.
But last Friday I disassembled everything, cleaned lines, etc... and after that cleaning and assembling everything back together, I now barely see the tray go below 1.5 cm before it's already filling up again.
So if someone had asked me this question i am asking now, I would have said that it fills up again when it's almost empty (1/4 left of what it had originally had)... but today i would have to answer the opposite and say It's refilling just after loosing a bit... i mean... it's refilling when there's still 3/4 of what was there initially. WTF.

I called up Autopot USA to ask them and they told me (can't remember the guy's name) that it was normal... that this is how their autopots are supposed to work... that they are always filled... and that what I described from before (aquavalve opening only after tray is almost empty) means something was clogged up before.
I could swear I had read or heard directly from Autopot that tray almost got empty before the Aquavalve would open again... so I'm a bit baffled with the response I got on the phone. Maybe i just didn't explain my self well (english isn't my first lang), but he did clearly say his autopots don't empty.

Any thoughts?

The tray should empty before refilling. If it is not doing that, you likely have a leak in the air valve controlled by the external double float. If that valve is operating properly, it is impossible for the tray to re-fill until the tray empties so far that air is able to get beneath the edge of the valve cover, allowing the water inside to drain, and releasing the inner float valve. If I was you, I would check that the silicone in the air valve is correctly seated, and not distorted from being used previously. It can help to reverse the silicone so that it presents a fresh flat surface to the valve seat. The silicone holder, valve seat, and silicone all need, of course, to be clean, the valve assembly needs to be fully seated with its lower edge on the surface of the tray, and that the hinge on the external float must not be binding due to damage or misallignment.

As to Autopot's comment that refilling with 1.5 cm or so water still in the tray, that is incorrect. Perhaps there is a communication issue going on, but if not, the person that gave you that advice does not know what they are talking about. Further, if you allow the valve to operate this way, you increase the risk of root problems and overwatering, perhaps by a great deal. The success of this system depends on the flood zone aerating well during each flood cycle, and that is unlikely to happen if it drains only half way.

An easy way of actually testing a valve is to allow it to fill the tray, and then slowly suck the water out until the flow starts to refill the tray. If you do this, and the valve is working, you will actually hear when the air finally makes it under the edge of the valve cover, you will see the water inside drain out, and see the refilling process begin when the the float valve opens. As long as that air valve is sealed, the only way the water inside the cap can get out and thereby allow the float valve to open is for the water in the tray to be lowered until air can get beneath the cover edge, and that cannot happen until the tray is virtually empty.

If anything that I have said here does not make sense, I suggest you have another look at the information on the Autopot website until you clearly understand the interaction between the flood valve and air valve.

Good luck with it. If you figure out exactly what the cause of the behaviour is in your case, please let everyone know so they can learn from your experience.

 

[St. Tom]

hi folks i just want to pint out my 4 have never once done a dry cycle the feed goes up and down to certain levels but never dries out unless my pipes get blocked and the reason i say this is even now i end up with odd lockouts and my girls now are being top-fed but will be going back on the res tomorrow so in all this time have mine not been working correctly @pop22 what do you think

 

[pop22]

All I can say is mine never did that. The bottom of the tray would be almost completely dry before they'd open

hi folks i just want to pint out my 4 have never once done a dry cycle the feed goes up and down to certain levels but never dries out unless my pipes get blocked and the reason i say this is even now i end up with odd lockouts and my girls now are being top-fed but will be going back on the res tomorrow so in all this time have mine not been working correctly @pop22 what do you think

 

[St. Tom]

All I can say is mine never did that. The bottom of the tray would be almost completely dry before they'd open

pop you've known me since i joined here and have helped me so many times over the years and i grow big plants but even google searching it says this about keeping the level at so many mm before filling also i don't use air domes if that makes a difference
PRODUCT INFORMATION

The AQUAvalve is a simple but very effective watering device but needs to be treated with care. Keep the AQUAvalve and the tray it sits in clean, free of obstructions, soil particles and it will help you water & feed your plants for many years. The AQUAvalve is guaranteed for 12 months.

The AQUAvalve is supplied with all the AutoPot systems. Once connected to the water supply the AQUAvalve will control the flow of water to the plants, by simple gravity pressure from a tank or water barrel, no pumps, mains water pressure, electricity or timers are required. Once connected to the tank the AQUAvalve will open and allow water to fill the tray, to a pre-set level of 20mm. When the level is reached the AQUAvalve will shut off and prevent any further water from entering the tray until all the water has been consumed by the plants

 

[Olderfart]

From @St. Tom's quote of the Autopot info: "...until all the water has been consumed by the plants." (my emphasis).

If the air valve (this is the one controlled by the external twin float) is operating correctly, it is not possible for the flood cycle to begin until the tray is virtually empty. Until the water in the tray lowers to the point that air can get inside and the water get out, the float valve is held closed. If the tray re-fills before it is virtually empty, there is an air leak, likely past the silicone seal controlled by the twin external float. The leak would likely be caused by contamination of the silicone seal surface by embedded junk, a misaligned or distorted silicone, dirt on the plastic seat that the silicone presses against when closed, or a jammed or dirty hinge on the twin float that prevents it from putting adequate pressure on the silicone seal. The silicone pad can take a set where it presses against the plastic seat, and this groove in the surface may not re-align with the raised seat if the silicone is removed for cleaning, or disturbed inadvertently. Reversing the silicone pad in in its retainer so that the other end of it presses against the seal will often correct this by presenting the seal seat with a fresh flat silicone surface. If all else fails, put in a new silicone pad. They are cheap, and keeping spares is a good idea.

Bottom line is that if flooding occurs too early, the water inside the valve assembly is draining down early, and that is almost certainly caused by the air valve not closing properly for some reason.

Happy autopotting peeps.

 

[elcoloan]

Well... great input from all! Thanks

I can't really say what caused it all for me and haven't been able to replicate it... but i know it has happened to me before in previous runs and i end up with root rot and water in trays smell really bad and runoff water as well. So proper dry-wet cycles (tray almost emptying before refilling) and bennies such as Bacilus Amylo are a def must for me with Autopot.
But it's working well now and all i really did was disassemble/reassemble the aquavalve again and it just worked again as it should, and I didn't take off the silicone parts, however... just the float parts. i did notice some friction going on between the inner float and the outer main body. so maybe it was that or the valve just not properly sitting in level or as it should.

And in case anyone needs it, here is what @Olderfart explained but in pictures

Btw Olderfart, i have heard that sound you mention you're so right. thanks for your explanations.

 

[Olderfart]

Well... great input from all! Thanks

I can't really say what caused it all for me and haven't been able to replicate it... but i know it has happened to me before in previous runs and i end up with root rot and water in trays smell really bad and runoff water as well. So proper dry-wet cycles (tray emptying) and bennies such as Bacilus Amylo are a def must for me with Autopot.
But it's working well now and all i really did was disassemble/reassemble the aquavalve again and it just worked again as it should, and I didn't take off the silicone parts, however... just the float parts. i did notice some friction going on between the inner float and the outer main body. so maybe it was that or the valve just not properly sitting in level or as it should.

And in case anyone needs it, here is what @Olderfart explained but in pictures
View attachment 1247097
Btw Olderfart, i have heard that sound you mention you're so right. thanks for your explanations.

You are welcome. The friction you noticed with the flood float is likely normal. As the inner float rotates on its hinge into the cover body, the float edge furthest from the hinge scrapes the cover before getting to its operating range of positions inside the cover body. As long as the float moves freely once its lower edge is inside the lower edge of the cover, it is fine.

Great pics by the way, thanks for posting them. Do you mind if I add them to my troubleshooting thread?

 

[elcoloan]

... Great pics by the way, thanks for posting them. Do you mind if I add them to my troubleshooting thread?

Not at all! Please use them.

 

[St. Tom]

From @St. Tom's quote of the Autopot info: "...until all the water has been consumed by the plants." (my emphasis).

If the air valve (this is the one controlled by the external twin float) is operating correctly, it is not possible for the flood cycle to begin until the tray is virtually empty. Until the water in the tray lowers to the point that air can get inside and the water get out, the float valve is held closed. If the tray re-fills before it is virtually empty, there is an air leak, likely past the silicone seal controlled by the twin external float. The leak would likely be caused by contamination of the silicone seal surface by embedded junk, a misaligned or distorted silicone, dirt on the plastic seat that the silicone presses against when closed, or a jammed or dirty hinge on the twin float that prevents it from putting adequate pressure on the silicone seal. The silicone pad can take a set where it presses against the plastic seat, and this groove in the surface may not re-align with the raised seat if the silicone is removed for cleaning, or disturbed inadvertently. Reversing the silicone pad in in its retainer so that the other end of it presses against the seal will often correct this by presenting the seal seat with a fresh flat silicone surface. If all else fails, put in a new silicone pad. They are cheap, and keeping spares is a good idea.

Bottom line is that if flooding occurs too early, the water inside the valve assembly is draining down early, and that is almost certainly caused by the air valve not closing properly for some reason.

Happy autopotting peeps.

I've stripped mine down once again today as they are back on the res and i do take the silicone things out every time i wash or clean them and roll them in my fingers but as i said i have never once seen them go completely dry and the floats on mine only let a certain amount of water in also are you using the new modules as I've just ordered some to replace my old blue ones here's a pic of them and a description

2020 Autopot Aquavalve 5 Module Pack

(New 9mm pipe)

These modules fit the standard 15L Module Tray and will fit onto your existing 16mm pipework with the included 16-9mm connectors.

Use Module Accessory Packs to upgrade your system to AQUAvalve5 with 9mm and 16-9mm pipe and fittings. An AQUAvalve5 Module Accessory Pack will fit into in your existing module trays perfectly. It includes all the fittings you need to connect to 16mm pipe – even 16-9mm cross and tee connectors

 

[bushmasterar15]

I've stripped mine down once again today as they are back on the res and i do take the silicone things out every time i wash or clean them and roll them in my fingers but as i said i have never once seen them go completely dry and the floats on mine only let a certain amount of water in also are you using the new modules as I've just ordered some to replace my old blue ones here's a pic of them and a description View attachment 1247269
2020 Autopot Aquavalve 5 Module Pack

(New 9mm pipe)

These modules fit the standard 15L Module Tray and will fit onto your existing 16mm pipework with the included 16-9mm connectors.

Use Module Accessory Packs to upgrade your system to AQUAvalve5 with 9mm and 16-9mm pipe and fittings. An AQUAvalve5 Module Accessory Pack will fit into in your existing module trays perfectly. It includes all the fittings you need to connect to 16mm pipe – even 16-9mm cross and tee connectors

This is something I need to get to update my aquavalves. I'm still running the old original set.