Indoor LST Hub

[BigBuddha]

Me likey :drool: 1 question, am I to believe that the main reason for LST is not to stress the plant but to get more light spread around?

That's the commonly understood reason yep. However, what it's really about is redirecting the plant hormones to - very basically - make smaller, lower stems turn into main colas. AND to get more light to them and ALSO to keep plants lower. Or if you're anything like me.. just for the hell of it. But the main, scientific explanation why LST is useful is because of auxin redirection.. which helps create stronger, fatter stems and bushier plants and in theory bigger yields.

If that's true would things like side lighting and bottom-up reflectors have the same type effect

No, because there is no auxin redirection taking place. That said, side-lighting is very handy to get light to lower parts, but upward light isn't really much good because it's only the topside of leaves that act on photosynthesis.. either that or the light has to be travelling in a top-down direction.. or something like that, for them to be able to use it.

or is there something else at play like uhh i dont know gravity or genetics telling the plant only the top bud is most important?

It's all about Auxins (plant hormones) and the plant thinking that it's lowest parts are its highest, and it does the rest by photo-reactivity. It naturally wants its cola closest to the light to get the most auxins and be the biggest flower (more chance of success of pollenation).. but if we fool it by training, it makes all it's colas get a more even spread of hormones and they also get more light.

I suppose it could be thought of like giving certain parts of the plant steroids.

Hope that helps answer your questions a bit better fella.

First time grower, thanks for this thread! Because of space constraints I have had to experiment and LST was the first way I went also did some topping (mind you not on auto's). Haven't finished reading through the whole thread but some of the info is relavent for my next grows and current. +rep and sub'd to this one :dance:

Happy Growing!!

Welcome to the hub, Txchilies. Glad you can put it to good use and if you learn any good tips on the way be sure to come and share with us.

 

[stashmouth]

Nice explanation BB!
I apparently have 0 points in my rep bank to give you. In spirit, I threw a couple your way.

 

[BigBuddha]

It's the thought that counts, stash. So if you could think me up a couple of pints of Stella, a Big Mac and Eliza Dushku I'd be just as grateful

 

[Smokeymountleddwctd]

Just saw your post Bigbudda disregard my message, especially about the Christmas lights lol!
the only thing maybe I'm not understanding is how the the auxin's know which one is on top, gravity, genetics, or light intensities..

 

[funkadelic]

What a coincidence? i posted a question today asking what is LST? and then found this (serendipity) I have 3 x 60 day wonder around 4-6 inches and looking very healthy, under a 250 hps. I am going to expirement on one with LST. I am going to do it on the plant that i am doing another experiment on. Has anybody heard of double dig growing? It is used for vegetables. You dig and turn over the soil twice as deep as usual, IE twice the depth of the spade. After that you NEVER step on the plot, it has to stay loose. The idea is that you can grow crops closer together as they find it easier to to root down. Its not a crackpot theory i grew veg with this method for years. In trials they have found you can get twice the amount of produce in the same space. SO i have one container bigger than the other 2 and i just put the soil in (biobizz all mix) and didn't tamp it down or even touch it. They have all been under the light for 2 weeks and it is a third bigger than the other two! This is not proof that it is working but its worth a try.

If anybody wants more details on this you can google "John Seymour, The self sufficient gardener" ( i don't think he grew weed but who knows he was an old hippie) I will keep you posted on the results and maybe post some pictures.

Cheers LSD here i come (is that a typo or a freudian slip?)

 

[Txchilies]

Thanks for the welcome Big Buddha. To help out from what I have learned, LST- Low Stress Training. There are to schools of thought on training plants, Bending (aka Super Cropping) and LST. Bending is more aggresive and stressful because you actually break down cell wall structure in the stem at the point of the bend. There are many YouTube vids on this and some good ones too I might add. LST takes advantage of the same process with out compromise to the plant thus less stress. This can be done at an early stage in plant life to allow for the lower nodes to grow out and up creating a top. As we all know more tops mean more bud. Haven't had the oppertunity to try this on an autoflower yet, but on photo sensitive plants with longer growing time you can essentually bend lower branches to get more tops on them. Knowing how and what makes it work is all good, the next question is: How far should you bend the main stalk when starting LST? And with autoflowers how soon?

Happy Growing!!

 

[sielm]

Hi all! This is a fantastic source of information and knowledge about LST. Thanks a lot BigBuddha for you efforts and explanations, they are most welcome!

I grow in a bucket :booya:. It is a very limited space, so when I began my research for information I decided LST would be my best bet. In fact it is a great technique! I started using it without knowing the real reasons of its effectiveness (and again thanks to BigBuddha for letting us know!).

My first real try was with the Pandora (my 2nd grow using the bucket). I had to check my journals to remember all the details! Here is the information about what I did: started LST'ing the main stem on day 14 (since sprouted), at this time the plant had 2 sets of true leaves and was growing the 3rd. I use fishing line (nylon cord) to tie them down, I was afraid this could damage the plant but in fact it is a great material because it's easy to work with and it's cheap. The caliber I use is 0.5mm so it's quite thick. Cords are pasted into the pot using duct tape :dance2:. I recommend using this method to get: 1). More budsites and 2). More free room above the plants to develop their fruits!. Of course you have to be careful when bending them, or else you could end with a piece of plant in your hands... (I have done that too and it makes you feel BAD). Some people have told me fishing line could act as a cutter, but in fact I have never cut any stems with the cords, but with my hands... Be careful when bending and do it slowly. Young plants are easy to bend without damaging them at all! Here you can see the progression of that plant, keep in mind it was really a micro grow! Pics are chronologically ordered, and please also understand this plant went through some hard times because of my feeding schedule mistakes...



I kept on LST'ing her until almost harvest time. Each time a cola would get too close to the lights I bent it. It is really a great view when the plant is all tied up, with branches facing sideways, and then a few hours later those same branches are going upwards again

BTW nice detail about pruning specific fan leaves to allow more lighting. If I knew about that I would not have pruned a lot of leaves at once, as I have done a couple of days ago with my current plants they look alright but now I'm afraid they could go hermie! Let's hope they don't...

Ah, another thing I like to do is to plant the seedling into a corner in my pots. I hope this does not make them to grow any smaller! Planting them into a corner allows me to use the pot edges to drive the plant along them and take advantage of all the surface I can (again I do micro growing hehe)

Subbed of course! Best regards!

 

[TheCannabist]

Plant tropisms and lst.

Just saw your post Bigbudda disregard my message, especially about the Christmas lights lol!
the only thing maybe I'm not understanding is how the the auxin's know which one is on top, gravity, genetics, or light intensities..

I can't answer your question yet, but I'm about to read the article attached to this post. This basically comes down to plant tropisms, which is pretty much the process of a plant recognising and responding to different stimuli in its environment eg. phototropism = growing toward light; gravitropism = growing against gravity (mostly). As far as I can tell, the mechanism behind the success of lst is related to the gravitropic effect, but like I said I haven't read this article yet. I will start with chapter 3 as it's titled: Auxin Transport and the Integration of Gravitropic Growth

I hope that helps and good question btw. I'm not sure if the attachment will work so let me know if it doesn't.



TC

 

[TheCannabist]

For fuck's sake that's just a contents page... I will keep searching.

 

[ElGuapo]

I have 3 Samurai Jacks at about 4 1/2 weeks out in a Guerrilla Grow that would benefit from this. Besides altering the shape, the yield should improve also. I remember seeing some wire core foam material at my local Garden Center, used for tying up tomato plants etc. Should be just the thing.